Upper/Lower body split critique.

Fatality · Aug 11, 2008

Hey you guys Fatality here. I just wanted to post my idea of an Upper/Lower body routine that'll soon be following after I'm done with my full body. You guys can post up your own Upper/Lower body to compare with mine or you can just post some tips to help my routine out a bit to make it better. If you have any input then it's more than welcomed. Here it is.

Upper 1
Incline Bench Press 3 x 5
Bent Over Row 3 x 5
Flat Bench Press 3 x 5
One Arm Row 3 x 5
Lat Raises 3 x 5
Hammer Curls 3 x 5
Skull Crushers 3 x 5

Lower 1
Stiff-Legged Deads 3 x 5
Hack Squats 3 x 5
Ham String Curls 3 x 5
Calve Raises 3 x 5

Abs and Cardio will be done on my off days which will be Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday. What do you guys think? I'm going to change between barbell and dumbbell and add in some pull-ups etc. to spice it up and keep it nice. I'm not sure about the reps. though, I'm still doing a fairly high rep range with the current routine which is around 8-11 reps. I've gained strength from it and now I want the mass and explosive power. I follow a good diet and get great amounts of rest seeing how school is out for the time being. So, what I want here is great amounts of muscle gaining and mass. If you have any input, please tell. Thanks.

- Fatality.

The Creator · Aug 11, 2008

I think it looks pretty solid. I would definitely throw squats in first thing on that leg day though. I would also recommend an overhead press for your shoulder movement on your upper body day in replacement of a chest press and/or lateral raises. I would also recommend doing 2 upper and 2 lower body days a week. One day to target higher reps (12-15) and one day to target lower reps (5-10). I think you are on the right track with exercise selection though. You can check out my log and see what I was doing for the first 15 pages or so. Very similar. I think it is a great idea and that way you can get great strength gains as well as size and you are not limited to one rep range over and over. IMO it is a great routine for packing on some solid mass.

Fatality · Aug 11, 2008

Thanks bud!

The Creator · Aug 11, 2008

The_KM · Aug 12, 2008

Fatality said:
Upper 1
Incline Bench Press 3 x 5
Bent Over Row 3 x 5
Flat Bench Press 3 x 5
One Arm Row 3 x 5
Lat Raises 3 x 5
Hammer Curls 3 x 5
Skull Crushers 3 x 5

Lower 1
Stiff-Legged Deads 3 x 5
Hack Squats 3 x 5
Ham String Curls 3 x 5
Calve Raises 3 x 5

Abs and Cardio will be done on my off days which will be Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday. What do you guys think? I'm going to change between barbell and dumbbell and add in some pull-ups etc. to spice it up and keep it nice. I'm not sure about the reps. though, I'm still doing a fairly high rep range with the current routine which is around 8-11 reps. I've gained strength from it and now I want the mass and explosive power. I follow a good diet and get great amounts of rest seeing how school is out for the time being. So, what I want here is great amounts of muscle gaining and mass. If you have any input, please tell. Thanks.

- Fatality.

Definitely looks solid bud. Couple things that came to mind:

If you're constructing an UB/LB split, really focus it on multi-joint compound movements instead of single-joint. Like The_Creator said, employ an OH shoulder press, alternate between dumbbells and barbells. I'd also steer away from hammer curls as your only direct bicep movement. Throw in a more powerful movement, standing barbell curls as an example. Use a bosu for local core stabilization also if possible.

Furthermore, I'd up the volume. 4-5 sets/exercise. However this depends on individual responsiveness.

Agree with The_Creator again about squats:

I'd construct your leg day like this, feel free to make changes:

Full squats
SLDL's
Leg Extensions
Calf raise (any)

I wouldn't switch up your rows at any point. BB rows will directly hit you traps (middle/lower fibers) while DB rows will recruit your lats, teres major/minor, traps, etc. If changed later, I'd add a t-bar row.

Also, every 4-6 weeks I'd allow yourself a detrain week. Lower the volume and intensity allowing you to physically and neurologically recover. By 3-4th week you'll be close to over reaching

Lastly, sorry if I mis-read, I'd rotate a 2 day-on, 1 day-off regime. I respect the fact you've added skull crushers as your direct tricep movement. You'll be recruiting your lateral, medial head through the pressing movements, and most people neglect the long head....which is what an extensions exercise focuses on. Nice job!

Hope you take my comments into consideration and let us know what's up.

Fatality · Aug 12, 2008

The KM, you're an amazing poster and since your knowledge is free to us, we really appreciate your help!

Fatality · Aug 12, 2008

This is what I'll probably do.

Upper 1
Incline Bench Press 4 x 6-8
Bent Over Row 4 x 6-8
Flat Bench Press 4 x 6-8
T-Bar Row 4 x 6-8
Overhead Press 4 x 6-8
Barbell Curls 4 x 6-8
Skull Crushers 4 x 6-8

Lower 1
Squats 4 x 6-8
Stiff-Legged Deads 4 x 6-8
Leg Extensions 4 x 6-8
Ham String Curls 4 x 6-8
Calve Raises 4 x 6-8

I'll alternate sometimes between barbell and dumbbell except for BOR's. Look good?

Actually now I don't know, I might keep the bigger workouts like bench press at 4 sets and take off a set for the minor muscles like curls and shoulders and triceps? Any other tips would be great!

The Creator · Aug 12, 2008

I think the lower day looks pretty solid. Personally I would exchange the ham curls for leg press but go by how you feel. I think what you have set out is probably right for you.
That being said, I think your upper day may need a bit of work. I would only do one chest press movement and make it five sets. Drop the second chest press movement. Keep both the back exercises. The back is much more complex than the chest and needs that extra attention. I would make your tricep movement on heavy days either close grip bench or dips (that can be your additional chest stimulation as well) and save the skull crushers for your light days.

The_KM · Aug 12, 2008

Fatality said:
The KM, you're an amazing poster and since your knowledge is free to us, we really appreciate your help!

Thanks man, appreciate the kind words and I'm glad I could be of assistance!

In response to your revised split:

Incline bench press really isn't necessary, if your upper chest is lagging substitute for flat every once in a while. The clavicular head gets hit through general chest movements as well as OH movements (secondary), so a direct load on it really isn't necessary.

About the rows. T-bars and BOR's are similar in nature to have them in the same workout. If anything alternate through each UB day. Both the t-bar's and bent over rows require you to retract your shoulder blades, which are the trap's main function. The lats, however, are a much larger muscle group. So I'd throw in BW or weighted (if possible) pull-ups or pulldowns. I'd lean to wide grip pull ups overall.

Critique on rep schemes:

First off, I'd lower set volume on all single-limb exercises. So, skull crushers and barbell curls I'd reduce your sets to 1-2 max. The load put on both of these small muscle groups indirectly is enough to overload them to an extent.

Secondly, I'd alternate rep schemes. A common problem with linear periodization is how some focus on a certain part of hypertrophy, while allowing the other to atrophy. On UB, LB day 1 I'd have reps at 5-7 to stimulate myofibril growth and on day 2 of each have reps at 8-12 to stimulate the sacroplasm. There are other ways of going about this, but this is the first and simplest that came to mind

Hope this helps man and that it doesn't intersect with other ideas!

Fatality · Aug 13, 2008

Thanks KM again, but I was hoping to keep the reps as they were. How's this?

Upper
Incline Bench Press 4 x 6-8
Wide Grip Chins 4 x 6-8
Flat Bench Press 4 x 6-8
T-Bar Row / Bench Over Row 4 x 6-8
Overhead Press 2 x 6-8
Barbell Curls 2 x 6-8
Skull Crushers 2 x 6-8

Lower
Squats 4 x 6-8
Stiff-Legged Deads 4 x 6-8
Leg Extensions 4 x 6-8
Ham String Curls 4 x 6-8
Calve Raises 4 x 6-8

As you can see, I'm sticking to what I had earlier because I don't want to switch up the reps having high and low days, I just want to keep them the same, other than that, I think it's pretty good. The only reason why though is because it's all too confusing to have different workouts for higher and low days so I'm just going to keep them high. But if you guys have a better routine that is simple and get great gains, then by all means, please tell. Thanks everyone!

MuscleMecca Crew

The_KM · Aug 13, 2008

Nope I understand man. That's why I said if you don't like it, holler.

Never meant to go light really. Just a weight that you can control more fully. I'm a simple trainer right now myself, keeping things as easy as can be. For some, like me, that works and for some that doesn't. UB/LB splits always caused me to run in to CNS drain quicker than other programs or routines.

The workout from what I can see looks good. On and if you have a detrain week I'd up your reps to the highs like mentioned. Still don't feel you need that incline chest press but that's fine if you feel it works for you.

So,

Good luck with your new split!

Fatality · Aug 13, 2008

Alright thanks bud!

The_KM · Aug 13, 2008

Anytime man.

Tunen · Aug 13, 2008

So you now have 7 exercises for your upper body and 5 for your lower. So I'll assume you have huge legs that overpower your torso and arms?

philosopher · Aug 13, 2008

Tunen said:
So you now have 7 exercises for your upper body and 5 for your lower. So I'll assume you have huge legs that overpower your torso and arms?

Just another beachboy

Balance out your upper/lowerbody lifts because legs need just as much (if not more) stimulation as your upperbody.

The Creator · Aug 13, 2008

I never have as many movements for my lower body as upper body because leg exercises can be much more compound in regards to the number of muscles hit per movement. For example, a squat done correctly will hammer literally every muscle of the upper leg, quads, glutes, hammies etc. Personally (and this is coming from somebody with weak legs comparitively however, I dont blame it on my weak training) I think that placing the emphasis of leg day on squats and deads can be near enough leg stimulation for mass in most people. We must remember that there is no single movement that can hit chest, back, shoulders, arms with the intensity that a single set of squats will hit the leg complex as a whole.

Tunen · Aug 13, 2008

The Creator said:
I never have as many movements for my lower body as upper body because leg exercises can be much more compound in regards to the number of muscles hit per movement. For example, a squat done correctly will hammer literally every muscle of the upper leg, quads, glutes, hammies etc. Personally (and this is coming from somebody with weak legs comparitively however, I dont blame it on my weak training) I think that placing the emphasis of leg day on squats and deads can be near enough leg stimulation for mass in most people. We must remember that there is no single movement that can hit chest, back, shoulders, arms with the intensity that a single set of squats will hit the leg complex as a whole.

I rest my case :keke:

Fatality · Aug 13, 2008

Thanks Tunen and Philo for a quick assumption of my body, really appreciate that. And yeah, my lower body is quite over-powering than my upper, so you are correct there. And no, I'm not a beach boy so I don't understand why you'd call me that. Creator, thanks for having my back so people just don't understand...

philosopher · Aug 13, 2008

Fatality said:
Thanks Tunen and Philo for a quick assumption of my body, really appreciate that. And yeah, my lower body is quite over-powering than my upper, so you are correct there. And no, I'm not a beach boy so I don't understand why you'd call me that. Creator, thanks for having my back so people just don't understand...

It was ment as a joke, thats why I added this smilie

The Creator · Aug 13, 2008

Tunen said:
I rest my case

Easy now tiger. Elaborate. . .

Upper/Lower body split critique.

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