I'll state why flys are crappy.
They are a low loading exercise that places all the insertions and joints involved in the movement under unnecessary load which leads to injury. This is primarily because the recruitment patterns of the chest fly have a slight delay before the pec is in it's position of strength. So all of the bicep, deltoid, and pectorial insertions (that deep burn you get in the centre of your chest at the sternum is actually tendon trying to pull off the bone) are being compromised, the shoulder capsule itself is therefore under a lot of stress, all leading to structural problems.
Now that isn't to say that flys will kill you and rape your children, but given they are doing damage at such a low loading (thus little growth potential) you would question why you would do them at all. The only real place for them in a workout is as an activation exercise done at low loading. Most people do them post exercise where they probably have the least value other than as a pump exercise. Either way neither option should be anything other than a very occassional use.
Another point is that DB flys for chest are the worst offender. All the load is happening when it is doing the most damage, and none when you need the most loading. Do cable flys if at all.
If it is true that the insertion points and joints are put under a lot of stress. Why aren't people getting injured from doing flyes. I use a lot of weight and i haven't had any problems? Not yet that is
Like I said they aren't out there raping your mum but they aren't a very good exercise to be doing week in week out. I did cable flys last week, but I won't do them again for months, just like I did leg presses and won't do them again for months (my knee hates me for doing them this time).
You know there is a reason why science came about; so that trial and error didn't have to reinvent the wheel every time. Science is all about objective evidence and experience.Originally Posted by LSIA4549DB/RS
I do flyes every now and again, maybe once or twice a month, usually just as as something different or for some light active recovery. I used to do them heavy every week and after a while they sure started making my delts ache and not in a good way.
My chest was a weak point for me too bro. It still sorta is, but Ive been making serious improvement. To make my chest grow, I did a couple of things differently. 1. I roll my shoulders back on any pressing movement for chest. This arches the chest to get a good stretch in the movement, and takes the shoulder out of the movement more. 2. I focus on the mind muscle connection. Its very possible to do a chest press of any angle and make your shoulders, triceps, biceps, forearms, and even lats do most of the work. Once I started focusing on making my chest strech at the bottom and contract a the top I started to get much better pumps, and overall growth. If you can't feel the muscle being worked during the exercise, your not working it effectively. Think about any exercise you do that works for you. how about curls for example. When you do a curl, I bet you can feel your biceps being pulled on and worked the entire time your moving the weight. And I bet this hasn't been as such a lagging bodypart as your chest right? Thats becaus your working the muscle effectively.
Sometimes you bother me. I'll say it directly, you are not MR. know-it-all, I don't give a shit how many books, articles or journals you've read... what works for some does not work for others. Why ? Because there are people who are fucking allergic to the sun, there are people who can get high from drinking Pepsi and there are people who can grow chest muscle with dumbbell flies.
It's that simple. I am not saying you are not a great attribute to this forums in terms of information, but you are not as valuable as you think. I may sound rude to you, but fuck man, you sound rude towards anybody who does not share your opinion.
Where am I going with this ? Take your head out of your ass. Don't be rude to others when you give them information, don't treat them as babies who cannot handle their own exercises, be nice and let people learn the hard way... it's the only one that really works.
In before I get perma banned.
^^ I get what you are saying but you also don't get it.
I wish that there was someone who would call a spade a spade when I started training. I had to rely on shitty information when I started training (15 years ago) and I wasted a lot of time and effort doing so. I've spent a lot of time learning stuff and doing stuff since and I hate to see the next generation of lifters suffer the same mistakes I made.
I can tell you now that when people just spout the same old bullshit rather than real evidence it annoys me. We are meant to get better with each generation, learn from others mistakes, but this field wallows in it's own bullshit. I wasted three years doing arm exercises that did absolutely nothing (turns out that bicep peaks are down to what sort of muscle belly you have) but I still see articles and posts claiming this same shit.
So don't get me wrong, I'm not being a dick about this. You would be much better off doing a proper pressing motion with a BB, DB or pushup than flys. You don't need flys, they are pointless if you have a proper routine put together.
DB flyes really do help my chest growth though Tim, the immense stretch coupled with the contraction at the top makes this exercise one of the best for "my" chest in terms of growth, I feel like my chest, particulary the outer regions have benefited from this over the years ive been training and I won't give them up unless I stop seeing results from them.
^^ There's another thing I wasted time on, inner and outer chest.
I'm not saying that Flys don't feel like they are working. But you know people feel that the world is flat. I get more out of pushups (with a plate or two on my back) than I ever did out of flys. I stand by the flys being a finisher on occassion exercise (i.e. once every couple of months in an overload period and you want a high rep contraction).