Considering weight training related sports have greatly evolved over the past couple decades because of science it's a little crazy to say science means nothing and trial and error is better. Yes, there is some "attacking" going on in here but Tim is not the only one (youngmusclejock, you're getting out of line, too). Studies don't build muscle, Tim never said this, but the people reading the studies and applying them to your regmine are.
On a side note, machines are terrible for your joints since your body is not able to move in it's natural ROM. And, they neglect stabilizers which can also be detrimental to your joints in the long run.
@ Tim, what was disrespectful about musclejok's post. He gave his opinion, you've been very irritable lately, chill, breath, calm down man.
In all fairness, I agree with musclejok's initial post. Nobody is right, wrong, upside down, etc. Trial and error. There are several studies that help us understand, but no study is going to tell us what works for ones own body more than trial and error.
Also, back to the topic at hand. From a personal stand point heavy bench has given me better gains, BUT, I train chest twice a week and I alternate between DBs and BBs session to session.
For the record I listed the pros and cons of DB's and BB's and recommended cycling between the two. Both have enough disadvantages that you are best not using only one for all your pressing.
But your comment "produce their little studies" is very condescending and rude. This is what I take issue with (and why I originally got pissed off) and it is the third or fourth time you have done it to one of my posts. This shows both ignorance of science and knowledge and a lack of respect for those that have spent so much time achieving said same. It is also rude to the other posters in the thread by calling their experience (which you seem to value so highly) worthless. I know you don't understand this which is why I have let it pass previously. But when someone directly contridicts you from a place of lesser understanding and does it in a manner as to be rude to "the scientist and everyone else can produce their little studies"
Yeh I did overstep the line with the last sentence, hence why IS was kind enough to edit it for me. I do appologise for getting personal. But you are insulting both my experience and knowledge, I've been lifting longer than most, in fact a lot of members here would have still been in diapers when I got my first DB. I don't just parrot off something I've read, I'm a critical reader (science is based on that) and want more evidence than some ad in a magazine, or what some pro "reckons".Quote
So years of experience, studies, science, engineering, etc, that have created the society we live in are now worthless because we should all just work it out ourselves?:dunnodude: Good luck learning how to invent the wheel and discover fire again.Quote
What PM? I recieve quite a few from people looking for help, so it may have been missed. (edit: I read your PM to me, you wonder why I didn't answer )Quote
Science finds the best way to build muscle, thus saving the need for trial and error.Quote
Quid pro quo dude. You've flamed science (thus me) countless times and me personally several. And ironically science is all about the facts :keke:Quote
Actually I didn't attack you. :wutyousay: My posts are in this thread: http://www.musclemecca.com/showthrea...ads-23518.htmlOriginally Posted by curtisymoo
If you take any of that personally I'm sorry, but you are wrong on that. Sorry if you don't like being wrong, go and read the bomechanics and EMG studies on this.
Gentlemen, (or ladies should you prefer!), firstly thank you for your input which has made for some interesting reading! Ok, i'm going to give the old BB bench a shot, alongside machine press, musclejock you are correct in that i am yet to try all the equipment available to me. Which brings me onto the question of the workout, should i increase chest workouts to 2 times a week or is that overtraining? Current workout is as follows, please do critique or suggest alternatives
3 x 10-12 incline DB
3 x 10-12 flat DB
3 x 10-12 flyes DB (alternate between incline and flat weekly)
2 x 15 dips or cable crossovers OR 2 x 15 DB pullovers
Day 1 - Chest
Day 2 - Back/Abs
Day 3 - Shoulders
Day 4 - Legs
Day 5 - Arms/Abs
Days 6/7 - Rest/20-30 mins cardio
Dips are better done heavier; DB between the feet for 5-8 reps.
I've never seen the point of pullovers.
The actual recruitment of sternal and clavicular portions of the pec isn't different enough to warant doing Incline and Flat presses in the same workout. If you want to do chest twice a week (frequency good as long as you don't go to failure and don't have DOMS when you train again) then do one one day the other later in the week.
If you want to do two chest session you should be doing two back sessions and probably two leg sessions.
Most machines are built with the average person in mind. I'm yet to meet the average person (hint they don't exist). So using machines regularly is just going to do long term damage.
Why do people say they cant Bench without a spotter? If the bar gets stuck in place and you can't press it up, let the weight slide off, easy.
I have more of an issue with people not wanting to squat heavy without a spotter? I find a spotter when squatting is MORE dangerous than without one. Why? because if you get stuck the help of a spotter on squats is close to useless, the correct thing to do is dump the weight off your shoulders, easy.
I find comments like these as excuses more than barriers stopping one from having a better workout.
that is all. carry on.