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Couture's Possible Gamplan?

Beau

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Looks like Randy's gameplan is sprawl and brawl rather than looking for the sub.

From Meltzer in the latest wrestling observer:

"Randy Couture says he is surprisingly confident with his current training and feels that Brock Lesnar won’t be able to take him down, and that his superior hand speed and footwork will make the difference. Couture has been training with several big wrestlers who have tried to mimic Lesnar’s all out aggressive attack, and his game plan is to avoid falling victim to their early power burst. Among those he trained with was Shane Carwin, who is about the same size as Lesnar and was a Division II national champion."
 
Kanav

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damn, he shouldnt be over confident.

Look at werdum
 
CaptainCharisma

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Besides wrestling, lesnar has absolutley nothing in this fight. Yes, he has tools that most fighters would kill to have, but it doesn't matter cause he hasn't developed them. And no matter how much potential lesnar has, there is no way he can improve that drastically from the last time we saw him fight. All i see with lesnar is a watered down version of Kerr/Coleman/Randleman etc. That being said, sprawl and brawl is probably the perfect startegy for couture here. He is a very quick HW, and he'll be able to use his entire repitoire of striking, due to lesnar's inexperience. He'll probably utilize things like head movement (simular to the sylvia fight) and dirty boxing (pretty much every couture fight). Also, lesnars chin is mostly untested, herring barely even hit him. Just because lesnar is a beast of a man and wears 4XL gloves doesnt mean he has an iron jaw. On the flip side, lesnar is a beast. You would just need to watch early kerr/coleman fights to get an idea of what hes gonna try and do. Which is quite simply; attack, attack, attack with takedowns, hammer fists and a whole mess of simular stuff, till he runs out of steam. Simple, but it could be very effective. I think this is basically a wrestler with brute power vs a technical more speedy wrestler. It can honestly go either way, and if either one steamrolls through the other it will be a suprise. Coture will win IMO, due to technical skill, speed and most importantly experience. But this is all just my opinion, and nothing more.
 
Chesticles

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Anyone know the betting odds? I'm going to put money on Lesnar if the price is right. It will be a close fight IMO.
 
Kanav

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Besides wrestling, lesnar has absolutley nothing in this fight. Yes, he has tools that most fighters would kill to have, but it doesn't matter cause he hasn't developed them. And no matter how much potential lesnar has, there is no way he can improve that drastically from the last time we saw him fight. All i see with lesnar is a watered down version of Kerr/Coleman/Randleman etc. That being said, sprawl and brawl is probably the perfect startegy for couture here. He is a very quick HW, and he'll be able to use his entire repitoire of striking, due to lesnar's inexperience. He'll probably utilize things like head movement (simular to the sylvia fight) and dirty boxing (pretty much every couture fight). Also, lesnars chin is mostly untested, herring barely even hit him. Just because lesnar is a beast of a man and wears 4XL gloves doesnt mean he has an iron jaw. On the flip side, lesnar is a beast. You would just need to watch early kerr/coleman fights to get an idea of what hes gonna try and do. Which is quite simply; attack, attack, attack with takedowns, hammer fists and a whole mess of simular stuff, till he runs out of steam. Simple, but it could be very effective. I think this is basically a wrestler with brute power vs a technical more speedy wrestler. It can honestly go either way, and if either one steamrolls through the other it will be a suprise. Coture will win IMO, due to technical skill, speed and most importantly experience. But this is all just my opinion, and nothing more.

I see randy utilizing a very simple technique, make lesnar work hard and let him exhaust himself out since hes obviously going to blow his load trying to finish the match in the first few minutes. When you're that massive, I really doubt hes going to have as much endurance as the guy who doesn't need to intake as much oxygen to his muscles.

Randy is probably going to dirty box him in the first and then look for the finish via submission or tko in the second or third. Or he could test brock's chin and might even finish him in the first (knowing brock is going for the whole gong and dash "james thompson" thing)
 
Ironslave

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Fair posts guys, but the obvious thing I disagree with is Couture "dirty boxing" Brock. Again, Brock is like 15 years younger, he will weigh around 60 pounds more at the time of the fight (for anyone who has ever wrestled or did MMA, this is an insane difference), he's much stronger, quicker, and the better wrestler. Randy is not going to be able to keep Brock pinned on a cage, not a chance. CC, how can you say Randy is quicker? This is a no contest in favor of Brock.

Again, it's a bad match up for Randy. Brock was a good match up for Mir, as he just needed to make one rookie mistake, and Mir could catch him (which is what he did). In contrast, Randy isn't great on his back. I just think it will be Brock by smothering/decision.
 
Beau

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Fair posts guys, but the obvious thing I disagree with is Couture "dirty boxing" Brock. Again, Brock is like 15 years younger, he will weigh around 60 pounds more at the time of the fight (for anyone who has ever wrestled or did MMA, this is an insane difference), he's much stronger, quicker, and the better wrestler. Randy is not going to be able to keep Brock pinned on a cage, not a chance. CC, how can you say Randy is quicker? This is a no contest in favor of Brock.

Again, it's a bad match up for Randy. Brock was a good match up for Mir, as he just needed to make one rookie mistake, and Mir could catch him (which is what he did). In contrast, Randy isn't great on his back. I just think it will be Brock by smothering/decision.

His dirty boxing will come into play in the later rounds mark my words...Lesnar will gas out (remember this is a 5 round fight) and when he does size/strength becomes obsolete. The first and maybe 2nd round will be the tougher rounds for Randy to control Brock. If/when he gets past the initial burst of Brock I think he has his way with him....thats just my opinion. Remember Randy has fought big dudes in the past that outweigh him significantly and done well.

I cant believe alot of you aren't giving one of the greatest MMA athletes ever a chance in this fight lol.
 
Ironslave

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His dirty boxing will come into play in the later rounds mark my words...Lesnar will gas out (remember this is a 5 round fight) and when he does size/strength becomes obsolete. The first and maybe 2nd round will be the tougher rounds for Randy to control Brock. If/when he gets past the initial burst of Brock I think he has his way with him....thats just my opinion. Remember Randy has fought big dudes in the past that outweigh him significantly and done well.

I cant believe alot of you aren't giving one of the greatest MMA athletes ever a chance in this fight lol.

Oh I'm not saying "Randy has no chance" at all. I just think Brock is a bad match up for his style. Wouldn't surprise me if Randy caught him with one when they're standing and that was it. I just don't see it being a "typical" Couture fight.

I don't see Brock gassing out. Yeah, he's a big guy, but he will be in just as good, if not better shape than Randy.
 
Beau

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I disagree with the cardio statement....he will gas out far quicker then couture. He will blow is load in the first round or 2. Randy will keep a solid pace throughout. Plus physique wise Lesnar carries alot more muscle which requires alot more oxygen. I just wanna see this fight already :D
 
Ironslave

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I disagree with the cardio statement....he will gas out far quicker then couture. He will blow is load in the first round or 2. Randy will keep a solid pace throughout. Plus physique wise Lesnar carries alot more muscle which requires alot more oxygen. I just wanna see this fight already :D

"gassing out" is due to a build up of CO2, not lack of oxygen :D
(though a big body would produce more CO2, for sure).

But regardless, Brock will be in great shape. He was able to wrestle for three rounds each 2 minutes in length, with 30 seconds between as an NCAA wrestler, which I'd argue is far more cardiovascularly demanding than MMA.

In his last MMA fight, he made a few shots, and basically smothered Herring, and used little energy. If Brock takes him down, I don't see him wasting much energy.
 

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CaptainCharisma

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Based on his history, this is a bad match for Couture, no doubt. The thing that sticks out in my head is Lesnar's lack of experience in MMA. I really don't believe he can significantly improve from the Herring fight. Yes there will be some improvement no doubt, but i don't think he will have picked up any serious new skills, there just hasn't been enough time. The Lesnar we saw fighting Herring was one dimensional; take down and then either lay and pray or throw a couple of pot shots here and there. The damage was done for sure, Herring's face is evidence of that. But i don't think Lesnar can keep Couture down. If the idea that Lesnar can hold Couture down is based from the Herring fight, we have to remember that Herring has never really been that good off of his back. He's always been more of a stand up guy who really utilized knees on the ground and soccer kicks, but thats another topic. I think i'm going too much here and there, so i'll make my point. I think Couture experience and game plan will make the significant difference. This will be a hard fight for him for sure, but in my opinion Lesnar's bullrushing and that that this guy goes over and starts throwing ground and pound like a madman will do him in. If there's a submission i'll be very suprised, i think Couture has 1 submission victory. The dirty boxing will definatley be a factor, cause the clinch will be a factor. Couture always finds a way to take it there to some extent. Size will not make too much of a difference, Couture showed he could stand and trade with a much more accomplished striker in Sylvia. Lesnar and Sylvia are no way the same, but i think Sylvia's height, and despite what most people think, stand up skill make him a much more difficult opponent to clinch and dirty box and whatnot. Maybe i'm biased, but a big strong wrestler does not impress me in MMA. I have seen too many of them falter from being one dimensional, and they all had the same hype behind them as Lesnar does (in the sense of their "potential" and wrestling pedigree) Size may make a difference here and there, but in my opinion technical skill will beat just plain brute power.
 
Ironslave

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Based on his history, this is a bad match for Couture, no doubt. The thing that sticks out in my head is Lesnar's lack of experience in MMA. I really don't believe he can significantly improve from the Herring fight. Yes there will be some improvement no doubt, but i don't think he will have picked up any serious new skills, there just hasn't been enough time. The Lesnar we saw fighting Herring was one dimensional; take down and then either lay and pray or throw a couple of pot shots here and there. The damage was done for sure, Herring's face is evidence of that. But i don't think Lesnar can keep Couture down. If the idea that Lesnar can hold Couture down is based from the Herring fight, we have to remember that Herring has never really been that good off of his back. He's always been more of a stand up guy who really utilized knees on the ground and soccer kicks, but thats another topic. I think i'm going too much here and there, so i'll make my point. I think Couture experience and game plan will make the significant difference. This will be a hard fight for him for sure, but in my opinion Lesnar's bullrushing and that that this guy goes over and starts throwing ground and pound like a madman will do him in. If there's a submission i'll be very suprised, i think Couture has 1 submission victory. The dirty boxing will definatley be a factor, cause the clinch will be a factor. Couture always finds a way to take it there to some extent. Size will not make too much of a difference, Couture showed he could stand and trade with a much more accomplished striker in Sylvia. Lesnar and Sylvia are no way the same, but i think Sylvia's height, and despite what most people think, stand up skill make him a much more difficult opponent to clinch and dirty box and whatnot. Maybe i'm biased, but a big strong wrestler does not impress me in MMA. I have seen too many of them falter from being one dimensional, and they all had the same hype behind them as Lesnar does (in the sense of their "potential" and wrestling pedigree) Size may make a difference here and there, but in my opinion technical skill will beat just plain brute power.

Great post, and I agree, Lesnar is one dimensional, does lack skill to finish, no doubt about that. If he's going to win, it's just going to be smother, and the occasional punch, and get the decision.

Randy isn't great on his back either though, unlike Mir. I could be wrong, but I truthfully can't see any way that Couture can keep Lesnar against a cage. Maybe if Brock was just a big doofus, but again, the guy is an NCAA Div 1 heavyweight champ, and 1 time NCAA runner up. He will be heavier than Sylvia, and without question, stronger, and better wrestling technique. That is how super heavyweight wrestlers like Brock fought.

IMO, Randy's going to have to catch Brock with a strike.
 
CaptainCharisma

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Great post, and I agree, Lesnar is one dimensional, does lack skill to finish, no doubt about that. If he's going to win, it's just going to be smother, and the occasional punch, and get the decision.

Randy isn't great on his back either though, unlike Mir. I could be wrong, but I truthfully can't see any way that Couture can keep Lesnar against a cage. Maybe if Brock was just a big doofus, but again, the guy is an NCAA Div 1 heavyweight champ, and 1 time NCAA runner up. He will be heavier than Sylvia, and without question, stronger, and better wrestling technique. That is how super heavyweight wrestlers like Brock fought.

IMO, Randy's going to have to catch Brock with a strike.

Your definitely right about Couture being iffy off of his back. Based on his fight record, whenever he's gotten onto his back it has not been a good situation for him. Honestly, the grappling aspect of the fight is the only thing that intrigues me personally in this fight. I am curious to see if a big grappler is still his weakness, ala Barnett and Rodrigues. Although he beat Gonzaga, which is legit, Lesnar's wrestling will defiantly make this fight interesting. Is Randy Couture still an elite wrestler among elite wrestlers? The stand up portion of this fight is one-sided in Couture's favor. On paper at least. Lesnar will definatley be the largest wrestler Couture has fought, besides Barnett, who Lesnar outweighs still. Should be an interesting fight, although i'd much rather see GSP/Penn, but this will do for now.
 

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