cutting diet...the saga continues

Hey guys, need some help here, i'm really trying hard to cut down a bit ideally down to 10% bf currently 15-18%. My meal plan is as follows:

Pre-workout malt bread about 50g of carbs and a few sugars
Post workout Protein shake and maybe a nutella sandwich (love the stuff). Not sure what a convenient source of carbs would be post workout, also the whole simple/complex carbs thing is something i've still not fully understood.

Off to work:

meal 1 - 6 egg whites + 1 egg yolk omlette
meal 2 - 250g of rump steak (apparently this is 60g of protein)
meal 3 - 250g of rump steak (60g approximate protein)
meal 4 - roast potatoes with 2 veg sides (usually carrots / broccoli)
meal 5 - mixed vegetables with another 250g of steak (60g protein)

Overall around 220g protein 150g of carbs and say 50g of fats. I have a lot of steak because this is all i can take with me to work an warm up in a microwave, also the staff canteen really sucks so i usually have veggies there. I'm sure i've got this wrong somewhere, any input would be greatly appreciated.


Training schedule

Day 1 - Chest
Day 2 - Back
Day 3 - Legs
Day 4 - Shoulders/Traps
Day 5 - Arms / calves
Abs every other day

Did you tried to add some cardio?

side not: what cardio are you doing? I'd recommend HIIT, if you have trouble sparing fat.

jguruz said:

Hey guys, need some help here, i'm really trying hard to cut down a bit ideally down to 10% bf currently 15-18%. My meal plan is as follows:

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Firstly bro, I'd cut to 7-9%. Insulin receptivity of course isn't effected dramatically at 10% and below, but the chances of adipose accumulation is high, and you will find yourself right where you were when you started.

The less body fat, the easier you'll be able to add lean mass.

Pre-workout malt bread about 50g of carbs and a few sugars
Post workout Protein shake and maybe a nutella sandwich (love the stuff). Not sure what a convenient source of carbs would be post workout, also the whole simple/complex carbs thing is something i've still not fully understood.

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Sounds good bud, watch the sugars pre-workout. Normally I wouldn't mind, but cutting and depending on your somatotype and carb sensitivity, I can't pin-point, personally, what to do.

That said, here's the baseline and reasoning of complex/simple carbs:

Not sure you know, you might, but just incase -- insulin is a hormone we somewhat revolve around. Post workout it's anabolic, as well as in the morning, but throughout the day if heavily secreted can lead to adipose storage and fat gain. Fat sucks, straight up.

So, realize that carbs release insulin, no matter what type...it's the glycoticity that matters. Complex carbs will not have s large impact on blood glucose levels, where as simple does. Limiting insulin responsiveness throughout the day causes your insulin sensitivity to increase, making the spike post workout to be that much more powerful.

^^ That's the easiest i could break it down bro, but that's the point; hope it helps!

meal 1 - 6 egg whites + 1 egg yolk omlette
meal 2 - 250g of rump steak (apparently this is 60g of protein)
meal 3 - 250g of rump steak (60g approximate protein)
meal 4 - roast potatoes with 2 veg sides (usually carrots / broccoli)
meal 5 - mixed vegetables with another 250g of steak (60g protein)

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Meal 1 looks good, add some oats or other wholegrain. Steak will get nasty after days of eating it, trust me. Fish(s), chicken, turkey, lean ground beef are all great complete protein sources.

Don't clump 90% of your carb intake in one meal. Although it may help treat hypoglycemia, not all carbs can be synthesized as glycogen at the same time. Spread your carb intake as follows:

20% in the morning (partially simple, partially complex)
20% pre workout (all complex, not fibrous)
25% pre workout (glucose-bound, nothing else, so: dextrose, WMS, or maltodextrin)

...remaining spread evenly throughout he day.

No fructose throughout the day, it most likely will be converted straight to triglycerides (storage form of bf).

Training schedule

Day 1 - Chest
Day 2 - Back
Day 3 - Legs
Day 4 - Shoulders/Traps
Day 5 - Arms / calves
Abs every other day

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You're in a caloric deficit, and this is definitely going to be neurologically and probably even musculotendoesly taxing with improper exogenous energy demands.

Use an off day on day 3, and another one during the week. I'd also place shoulders before legs.

Hope all of this helps! If you have any questions on what I've said, just lemme know!

Thats really helpful KM, thanks. Had to google some of those concepts but got there in the end (i'm a bit slow on the upload)! I do HIIT cardio, but nowhere near enough i guess, probably a couple of times every two weeks. Perhaps i ought to give a week of cardio without weights a go see if that helps. Just wondering what your post workout plan was, you got a meal log up here somewhere?

jguruz said:

Thats really helpful KM, thanks. Had to google some of those concepts but got there in the end (i'm a bit slow on the upload)! I do HIIT cardio, but nowhere near enough i guess, probably a couple of times every two weeks. Perhaps i ought to give a week of cardio without weights a go see if that helps. Just wondering what your post workout plan was, you got a meal log up here somewhere?

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Sure do, it's inactive but still there: search > KM's Training/Nutrition Log.

HIIT on its own is a workout, meaning it will effect your CNS, so preferably do it 3-4x/wk max and space it out accordingly.

My pwo meal, bulking is: 40g whey protein, 5g creatine, 4-5 slices white bread, 1 5" banana
Cutting it's: 60g whey protein, BCAA's and 1-2 bananas or 40g dextrose.

...as you can see I drop carb intake post workout to about 50% less when cutting, but nonetheless still taking care of the needs.

The only things I wanted to add was that you could definitely use more fruit (and possibly veges), meals 2 and 3 especially. By my math you have ~2000 cals coming in (how many do you need?) and over half from protein.

Now I know people love their protein and blah blah blah, but you are in a caloric deficit in order to lose weight. This is the time when you will need the fibre, nutrients, and minerals that carb sources generally provide. Change your ratio of macros so that you get more nutritious carbs or free carbs (veges that don't really provide carbs).

Also correct me if I'm wrong here but I was pretty certain you want your carbs early in the day and PWO. Yours appear to be all in the evening.

Another thing; that isn't a training schedule that is a list of body parts. It gives absolutely no idea of what you do or at what level of intensity.

tim290280 said:

The only things I wanted to add was that you could definitely use more fruit (and possibly veges), meals 2 and 3 especially. By my math you have ~2000 cals coming in (how many do you need?) and over half from protein.

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This I don't agree with, but your general post i do. As usual, great insight Tim!

Fruits are generally fructose, which I 100% believe should be completely avoided in a cutting diet, and I'll tell you why.

Fructose cannot be taken up by the skeletal muscles; fructokinase is present in the liver tissue, not muscle. So. 75-100g it takes for the live to fill, which in turn will develop an unregulated source of acetyl CoA and vldl. Both will lead to hyperlipidemia and insulin resistance > decreasing protein synthesis by limiting insulin. Not just that, fructose does not suppresses ghrelin, so you will continue to eat.

Some may agree, some may not. Fruits are great for general health, but not for a short-term cutting diet imo.

Another thing; that isn't a training schedule that is a list of body parts. It gives absolutely no idea of what you do or at what level of intensity.

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good point, I agree

^^ I don't know if it is worth worrying about. Yes fructose isn't the best:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/80/4/1043.pdf

But the actual amount that you get from actual fruit is pretty low and is taken in with fibre which offsets the negatives to a large degree (well from what I understand anyway). The concentrated stuff like orange juice is only ~4% fructose, so in that actual fruit it is much lower. Apples are pretty high at 6%, apple and pear juice is ~7%. Now compare that to table sugar at 50%, HFCS at 50-90%, honey at 40% and rasins at 30% and you get the idea.

So a lot of fruits are actually only 2% fructose so in order to take in the 75g then you would need to be eating somewhere in the order of 3.5kg of fruit a day. Thats a fair bit of fruit to consume. I think an average orange would be a couple hundred grams, an average apple about half that.

Right but generally servings are more than particular frut. Good points. Breads, even whole wheats contain HFCS. So, although all 75g may not come directly from fruits, it can add up quick. Fruits don't help this.

^^ Yeh I'm not a fan of the processed breads that contain HFCS. I've gone to fresh bakery bread that doesn't have the additives. But yes the fructose sure adds up, as all it would take is some honey on your oats in the morning and there's your daily intake!!!

But if you are having a pretty bland diet without the processed stuff then I don't see a problem with fruit. Although I should be clear and say that I'm not a fan of fruit juice (unless you make it yourself and don't strain of filter it). THe V8 and other similar style commercial juices might as well be a can of Coke.