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California considers ending welfare

Ironslave

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Nice to see this talked about at least.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/nation/story/69467.html

California contemplates ultimate reform - no welfare

Could California become the first state in the nation to do away with welfare?

That doomsday scenario is on the table as lawmakers wrestle with a staggering $24.3 billion budget deficit.

County welfare directors are "in shock" at the very idea of getting rid of CalWORKs, which has been widely viewed as one of the most successful social programs in the state's history, said Bruce Wagstaff, director of the Department of Human Assistance in Sacramento.

"It's difficult to come up with the right adjective to react to this," Wagstaff said. "It would be devastating to the people we serve."

H.D. Palmer, a spokesman for the state Department of Finance, said California is in an unprecedented fiscal situation that has made all programs, from education to human services, vulnerable to deep and painful reductions.

"I don't wish for a moment to minimize the profound impact" that eliminating CalWORKs would have, Palmer said. "But the easy decisions are way past being in the rearview mirror for us. We face the specter of California not having cash on hand to pay its bills in July."

Wagstaff and other administrators are betting that the state will rescue the "welfare to work" program. But they are bracing for cuts that would slash benefits to the lowest levels since the late 1990s, when CalWORKs began as part of the federal government's bold reform of the welfare system.
 
Big VIC

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I wish this happened...
 
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Ron Paul FTW
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It kinda seems like they are using the welfare system as the scapegoat. Yes, the welfare system is wasteful, but I'd be willing to bet there are hundreds of other reasons why the California budget is so fucked up right now.
 
Hypocrisy86

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It was coming sooner or later.
 
Beau

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Why don't they start taxing booze and cigarettes?
 
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Why don't they start taxing booze and cigarettes?
they are taxed. in fact, they are unfairly over-taxed by both the federal and state government.

government never seems to understand that the solution to deficits shouldn't be to raise taxes.....it should be to lower taxes and drastically cut spending. when you lower taxes, people spend and produce more.
 
Beau

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I thought I read somewhere Cali doesn't tax booze or tobacco...isn't there booze and tobacco tax low though for state averages
 
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I thought I read somewhere Cali doesn't tax booze or tobacco...isn't there booze and tobacco tax low though for state averages
They are on the lower end compared to other states, but they are still taxed. Thats not the point though.

It's unfair to constantly attack one group of people every time the government needs more money. Cigarettes are any easy target because everyone knows they are "bad" for you. So anti-smoking people think it's ok to levy a massive tax on smokers because it will force them to quit. I think many people seem to forget that one of the most important events if American history was the Boston Tea Party, which happened because of unfair taxes.
 

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MrChewiebitums

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ok then lets tax the people who arent putting a strain on the health system
why is it unfair?
i could go on and on about the usual stuff which isnt fair at all..... so why should we be fair on people who smoke.... might as well suck as much money from them before we have to waste time burying their smelly asses

they are not taxing bread and water... cigs, which have an inelastic demand, tax it high, tax it low, they will still buy a lot.
an incentive to save money, time and resources
a chance to get some serious income for the gov


or we could tax, medicine, nappies, food in general.... where i live the gov taxes you on everything... we even have a TV tax.. every year you pay tax for each TV you own



ofcourse when i say we i really mean the government..... WE dont really have any power
 
tim290280

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what is your favorite product in the whole wide world? (example: tv, computer, candy)

I agree with your argument as someone can decide that too many people abuse something that should only be an occassional joy and tax it. Not your fault people are stupid.

But the problem is that doesn't fix the problem, because people are stupid and lazy. Sometimes to pay for their mistakes you have to tax the fuck out of them in order to make sure they are taken care of for their own stupidity. If you don't take care of them they weigh down the rest of society with their stupidity.

On the welfare thing; I don't like long term welfare, but the alternative is that we have a role for everyone in society that doesn't lead to the debasement of said same. Look at any country with large levels of poor and unemployed living below poverty lines and you have massive crime and social problems. I know people who have lived 90% of their lives on welfare and don't like the idea of working (and will probably raise another generation of little leaches). Those people suck the life out of me and you. But I've also been on welfare while I was looking for a job other than security guard at a railway station at night. It is there to help, can't take away help so that people don't have opportunities.
 
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I agree with your argument as someone can decide that too many people abuse something that should only be an occassional joy and tax it. Not your fault people are stupid.

But the problem is that doesn't fix the problem, because people are stupid and lazy. Sometimes to pay for their mistakes you have to tax the fuck out of them in order to make sure they are taken care of for their own stupidity. If you don't take care of them they weigh down the rest of society with their stupidity.
so....we should put a tax on ignorance?

In a free society, you must allow people to make decisions on their own. Sometimes they make good decisions, sometimes they make bad ones.

Not eveyone in the world wants to do yoga and eat tofu. Some people want to smoke cigarettes and get drunk. You may not like the way some people choose to live their lives and thats fine, but to unfairly burden them with excessive taxes simply because they lead a different lifestyle than you is not the right thing to do.
 
tim290280

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so....we should put a tax on ignorance?

In a free society, you must allow people to make decisions on their own. Sometimes they make good decisions, sometimes they make bad ones.

Not eveyone in the world wants to do yoga and eat tofu. Some people want to smoke cigarettes and get drunk. You may not like the way some people choose to live their lives and thats fine, but to unfairly burden them with excessive taxes simply because they lead a different lifestyle than you is not the right thing to do.

And we should pay because they unfairly burden our economy with their poor health and inefficient work habits (smokers average ~10mins less work per hour than anyone else).

Sorry but you are talking about the short term versus long term costs. You have to plan for the future costs and I see no problem in smokers subisdising their future poor health through taxes.
 
MrChewiebitums

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so....we should put a tax on ignorance?

In a free society, you must allow people to make decisions on their own. Sometimes they make good decisions, sometimes they make bad ones.

Not eveyone in the world wants to do yoga and eat tofu. Some people want to smoke cigarettes and get drunk. You may not like the way some people choose to live their lives and thats fine, but to unfairly burden them with excessive taxes simply because they lead a different lifestyle than you is not the right thing to do.

we dont live in a free society
and people can do what the fuck they want as long as they dont do it near me.. and dont go out isnt an answer, if it trully is a free society i should be able to enjoy the world without someone else killing me.
exactly... why should i have to pay for some low quality dung head.... at least... allow me freedom to roam outside without having to put up with these losers.
smoke at home, in the car.....

i do not wish to look like a scrotum, smell like a rectum and have the health of a street bum
and i dont know why you keep trying to defend it when smoking gives you no benefits... and unlike every other drugs, effects even those not doing it which is why i hate it.... i already said if it doesnt effect me then you only have a responsilibity to yourself unlike cigs
 
Ironslave

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As usual, I'm agreeing with Tech 100%.


And we should pay because they unfairly burden our economy with their poor health and inefficient work habits (smokers average ~10mins less work per hour than anyone else).

Sorry but you are talking about the short term versus long term costs. You have to plan for the future costs and I see no problem in smokers subisdising their future poor health through taxes.

If a smoker is a poor worker then their employer has every right to fire them due to lack of productivity and replace them with someone better. It's as simple as that. Eventually, the smoker is going to realize that if his habit is affecting his work ethic, he needs to quit it or else he can't get work. The best way to help someone is to make them help themselves.

If they end up getting lung cancer later in life due to smoking 2 packs a day, then they're the ones who suffer the consequences and should have the burden to pay for their medical costs.

Question for everyone, does anybody know who the first world leader who imposed taxes/bans on smoking and strongly promoted that everyone eat healthy and exercise for the betterment of society?

Here's one of his posters:

707018-1.gif


and the answer, with a dramatized portrayal of the times.

smoke2Bnazi-1.jpg
 
Ironslave

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we dont live in a free society
and people can do what the fuck they want as long as they dont do it near me.. and dont go out isnt an answer, if it trully is a free society i should be able to enjoy the world without someone else killing me.
exactly... why should i have to pay for some low quality dung head.... at least... allow me freedom to roam outside without having to put up with these losers.
smoke at home, in the car.....

i do not wish to look like a scrotum, smell like a rectum and have the health of a street bum
and i dont know why you keep trying to defend it when smoking gives you no benefits... and unlike every other drugs, effects even those not doing it which is why i hate it.... i already said if it doesnt effect me then you only have a responsilibity to yourself unlike cigs

Could you be any more dramatic?

Many bars are smoke free, and as a private bar, it's their right.

You're worried about a bit of cigarette smoke when there are factories like this?

pollutionfromfactory-1.jpg
 
Tech

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And we should pay because they unfairly burden our economy with their poor health and inefficient work habits (smokers average ~10mins less work per hour than anyone else).

Sorry but you are talking about the short term versus long term costs. You have to plan for the future costs and I see no problem in smokers subisdising their future poor health through taxes.
what a silly "statistic".

How about we let business owners decide who the hard workers are. If someone is lazy or does poor work, that's none of your concern. The only person that should matter to is the employer.
 
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