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post workout shake with oats or not??

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hosoi2

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a personal trainer at my gym said that by putting oats in my post workout shake i was slowing down the absorption of protien and was counter active. I get wat hes saying but wasnt sure if its true ??? could someone give me some more info pls...
 
The Creator

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Oats would not be your best choice of post workout carbs. Not a terrible choice but not your best one. You are better off mixing in a simple carbohydrate with your protein such as dextrose, waxy maize etc.
 
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hosoi2

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cheers, is there nething house hold i could use instead ?
 
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DriDDeRz

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You can find dextrose at your local health food shop and your local supermarketer
its really cheap, just afew dollars for few kg's
 
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cheers i just ordered some from myprotien . it says helps absorption of creatine aswell.
 
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DriDDeRz

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yeah add some creatine to your mix and you'll be set to gain :D
 
Johnny5

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I think cream of wheat would be better as it absorbs quicker then oatmeal (tastes better too). I read that somewhere...
 
tim290280

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Stear clear of waxy maize. Not the fast carb that people have been lead to believe.
 

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BigBen

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I would opt out for a quicker digesting carbohydrate and a quicker digesting whey here is the reason why. It is simple your body will digest mono saccharides(sugars) faster than it will digest oatmeal di saccharides(longer chains of sugars) and polysaccharides(indigestible sugars ie fiber). The dextrose and whey will pass the stomach faster than oatmeal and protein. Oatmeal has fiber in it fiber slows down digestion, protein also slows down digestion. So if you goal is to get nutrients past the stomach and into the small intestines fast dextrose and whey is the better option.
 
Swifto

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I would opt out for a quicker digesting carbohydrate and a quicker digesting whey here is the reason why. It is simple your body will digest mono saccharides(sugars) faster than it will digest oatmeal di saccharides(longer chains of sugars) and polysaccharides(indigestible sugars ie fiber). The dextrose and whey will pass the stomach faster than oatmeal and protein. Oatmeal has fiber in it fiber slows down digestion, protein also slows down digestion. So if you goal is to get nutrients past the stomach and into the small intestines fast dextrose and whey is the better option.

BCAA's will hit the blood in around 15-20 minutes. Whey slightly longer.

Thats fast enough PWO. Protein synthesis wont start immediately, glycogen restoration will.

If you didnt want to use oats, you could use sweet potato, brown rice or my favourite, quinoa.

You should read that link I posted...Dextrose shouldnt be added to anything at all IMHO.
 
MrChewiebitums

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dont be afraid to eat stuff like white bread after training... your body will use it for the insulin spike.. throw on a bit of jam and you have a decent pwo carb meal
if your bulking that is
 
BigBen

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BCAA's will hit the blood in around 15-20 minutes. Whey slightly longer.

Thats fast enough PWO. Protein synthesis wont start immediately, glycogen restoration will.

If you didnt want to use oats, you could use sweet potato, brown rice or my favourite, quinoa.

You should read that link I posted...Dextrose shouldnt be added to anything at all IMHO.
I did read the link. Fast digesting carbohydrates should be eaten pwo to pass the stomach faster to get into the blood faster. Glycogen restoration does not occur in one meal. Amino Acids PWO with no sugar doesn't make much sense how will the amino acids pass into the cells? Active transport is how cells get nutrient amino acids sugars ect into the cell to be metabolized. Active transport requires ATP, and thats how a cell would get amino acids into it. If their was no sugar present the body would have to supply the ATP from breaking larger molecules down for energy. Now if we are talking about being anabolic making smaller ions, atoms, and molecules in the body into bigger molecules i stand by the sugar PWO instead of the brown rice ect. Now any other time of the day its grains as a carb source.

PWO should go sugars, aminos then whey. Followed up by a meal an hour or so later. That meal can be brown rice ect.
 
Natzo

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Vitargo is the best I've tried.

:thumbsup2:
 
Swifto

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I did read the link. Fast digesting carbohydrates should be eaten pwo to pass the stomach faster to get into the blood faster. Glycogen restoration does not occur in one meal. Amino Acids PWO with no sugar doesn't make much sense how will the amino acids pass into the cells? Active transport is how cells get nutrient amino acids sugars ect into the cell to be metabolized. Active transport requires ATP, and thats how a cell would get amino acids into it. If their was no sugar present the body would have to supply the ATP from breaking larger molecules down for energy. Now if we are talking about being anabolic making smaller ions, atoms, and molecules in the body into bigger molecules i stand by the sugar PWO instead of the brown rice ect. Now any other time of the day its grains as a carb source.

PWO should go sugars, aminos then whey. Followed up by a meal an hour or so later. That meal can be brown rice ect.

Your overanalysing this.

BCAA's will enter the blood after 15-20 minutes. Leucine (if supplemented) will cause a sufficient insulin spike itself. The added simple sugars will just mean there is a far higher chance of taking on additional fat PWO.

I'm not saying no CHO, but I'm saying it makes no difference simple or complex. There is NO evidence stating simple CHO are needed PWO, compared to complex CHO. You run the risk of elevating insulin too much, then taking on additional fat, when complex CHO are better for you anyhow and will cause the "insulin spike".

Its just supplement company dogma stating simple CHO are essential.

There are tons of studies out there that state Leucine will create an insulin spike itself. There is also an interview on MD somewhere.
 
The Creator

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Hyperinsulinaemia, hyperaminoacidaemia and post-exercise muscle anabolism: the search for the optimal recovery drink
Dietary supplements and other ergogenic aids are popular among athletes. Recent studies have shown that nutritional mixtures containing protein hydrolysates, added leucine, and high-glycaemic carbohydrates greatly augment insulin secretion compared with high-glycaemic carbohydrates only. When post-exercise hyperinsulinaemia is supported by hyperaminoacidaemia induced by protein hydrolysate and leucine ingestion, net protein deposition in muscle should occur. Thus, consumption of post-exercise recovery drinks containing these nutrients in conjunction with appropriate resistance training may lead to increased skeletal muscle hypertrophy and strength. However, the long-term effects on body composition and exercise performance remain to be determined.

British Journal of Sports Medicine.


Effects of ingesting protein with various forms of carbohydrate following resistance-exercise on substrate availability and markers of anabolism, catabolism, and immunity
Background
Ingestion of carbohydrate (CHO) and protein (PRO) following intense exercise has been reported to increase insulin levels, optimize glycogen resynthesis, enhance PRO synthesis, and lessen the immuno-suppressive effects of intense exercise. Since different forms of CHO have varying glycemic effects, the purpose of this study was to determine whether the type of CHO ingested with PRO following resistance-exercise affects blood glucose availability and insulin levels, markers of anabolism and catabolism, and/or general immune markers.
Methods
40 resistance-trained subjects performed a standardized resistance training workout and then ingested in a double blind and randomized manner 40 g of whey PRO with 120 g of sucrose (S), honey powder (H), or maltodextrin (M). A non-supplemented control group (C) was also evaluated. Blood samples were collected prior to and following exercise as well as 30, 60, 90, and 120 min after ingestion of the supplements. Data were analyzed by repeated measures ANOVA or ANCOVA using baseline values as a covariate if necessary.
Results
Glucose concentration 30 min following ingestion showed the H group (7.12 ± 0.2 mmol/L) to be greater than S (5.53 ± 0.6 mmol/L; p < 0.03); M (6.02 ± 0.8 mmol/L; p < 0.05), and C (5.44 ± 0.18 mmol/L; p < 0.0002) groups. No significant differences were observed among groups in glucose area under the curve (AUC) values, although the H group showed a trend versus control (p = 0.06). Insulin response for each treatment was significant by time (p < 0.0001), treatment (p < 0.0001) and AUC (p < 0.0001). 30-min peak post-feeding insulin for S (136.2 ± 15.6 uIU/mL), H (150.1 ± 25.39 uIU/mL), and M (154.8 ± 18.9 uIU/mL) were greater than C (8.7 ± 2.9 uIU/mL) as was AUC with no significant differences observed among types of CHO. No significant group × time effects were observed among groups in testosterone, cortisol, the ratio of testosterone to cortisol, muscle and liver enzymes, or general markers of immunity.
Conclusion
CHO and PRO ingestion following exercise significantly influences glucose and insulin concentrations. Although some trends were observed suggesting that H maintained blood glucose levels to a better degree, no significant differences were observed among types of CHO ingested on insulin levels. These findings suggest that each of these forms of CHO can serve as effective sources of CHO to ingest with PRO in and attempt to promote post-exercise anabolic responses.

J Int Soc Sports Nutr

THE EFFECTS OF LIQUID CARBOHYDRATE ON MARKERS OF ANABOLISM FOLLOWING HIGH INTENSITY RESISTANCE EXERCISE.
[H30D FREE COMMUNICATION/SLIDE NUTRITION AND RESISTANCE EXERCISE]

CONCLUSION:
A CHO compared to a PLC consumed before and after a high intensity resistance training session increased plasma [insulin]. Liquid CHO appears to lead to a more favorable anabolic post-workout environment, however our indirect measure of protein degradation ([NH3+]) did not demonstrate this. Funded by Gatorade Sports Science Institute.

The American College of Sports Medicine

Here are a couple studies related to the topic. Personally I do believe that faster acting carbohydrates to be better and I have read literature suggesting this. However, I do believe the difference to be so small that it would never make an impact of difference. The body's #1 goal following resistance training is to restore blood sugar levels and this can be done more quickly with fast acting CHO. You always here about the post workout window. The window closes as time passes. I would rather flood my muscles with restored glycogen than let it drip slowly in. This is just my opinion and educated at that. Always look at who is funding the literature and always read multiple sources!
 
tim290280

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^^ Beat me to it Mike :xyxthumbs:

@Swifto: the "evidence" in that thread you referenced was largely heresay. The one reference I could see was supporting the idea of simple CHO PWO.

There has been a large amount of PWO nutrition research that has covered the need for carbs, especially quickly digested carbs. It is more recently they have looked at proteins and EAA's, etc to add to the mix. It is fairly well established that fast CHO's are needed PWO to replace depleted blood and muscle glycogen, aid in the switch to anabolism and to transport stuff like creatine into the cells. I posted something on the ratios of P:C that are needed PWO in this section. That research is only looking at fast CHO's.

Be carefull of people making claims without actual evidence.
 
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alper

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I'm with Natzo! Vitargo is the best pwo supplement I've ever tried
 

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