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My Post Wo supplementation

HeavyWeight_86

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By the end of september I'm gonna start a bulking diet mixed with doggcrapp training, searching on the net I planned to take this things after my WO:
300 mg ALA(Alpha Lipoic Acid)
200 mg Chromium
then right after 30-50 grams of Dextrose or Vitargo
after the Vitargo, 5 grams of creatine mono and 5 grams of glutamine, plus 5 BCAA.
After 15-20 minutes I will take my 30 grams whey.
How does that sound?
 
tim290280

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^^ Sounds like you are way overthinking things.

All you need is some protein and carbs in a 50:50 or 30:70 mix PWO.
 
Flex

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By the end of september I'm gonna start a bulking diet mixed with doggcrapp training, searching on the net I planned to take this things after my WO:
300 mg ALA(Alpha Lipoic Acid)
200 mg Chromium
then right after 30-50 grams of Dextrose or Vitargo
after the Vitargo, 5 grams of creatine mono and 5 grams of glutamine, plus 5 BCAA.
After 15-20 minutes I will take my 30 grams whey.
How does that sound?
It makes no sense that you're separating your vitargo and whey protein. You never want carbohydrates without protein, with the exception of during your training.

Also, doesn't Vitargo include creatine monohydrate? I could be wrong.

One last thing, 30 grams of whey is pretty low for post-workout. I'd say boost that up to at least 40 grams.
 
MrChewiebitums

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Also, doesn't Vitargo include creatine monohydrate? I could be wrong.

unless it specifically states with added creatine then no, vitargo has no creatine

vitargo-1.jpg
 
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Big_Guns_Lance

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^^ Sounds like you are way overthinking things.

All you need is some protein and carbs in a 50:50 or 30:70 mix PWO.

I agree.

Take your Dextrose, Whey and Creatine all at once after the workout. And like Tim said a 70:30 ratio of carbs/protein.
 
bambam55

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Ive been interested in doggcrap training myself but when I search it it seems pretty hard to find an actual template for it. From what I understand it focuses on just beating the weight that you had in the previous workout by either weight or reps correct?
 
Big_Guns_Lance

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^ I didn't really know what dogcrapp training is either.

In this months MD Dorian talks about his training journal and how he used to always try and beat his previous, wheather it be reps or weight lifted. He then says theres a system out now called DC and thats what he was basically doing- beating the logbook.

If that is what DC is then I would assume alot of people do that. Because I don't specifically call myself a DC trainer, but I go to the gym with the intension of beating my previous limits(in log book) and I know alot of other people do this too.
 
HeavyWeight_86

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Doggcrapp Training, or DC Training, is a weight training methodology created by Dante Trudel, a person in the bodybuilding community whose work has influenced the routines of an unknown number of trainees. Trudel's methods are intended to help bodybuilders increase their muscle mass in a short period of time. The premise of DC Training is that an individual who can train a bodypart as often as possible with corresponding strength gains (assuming adequate recovery) will demonstrate the fastest gains in muscle size. The method takes its unusual name from the screen name Dante Trudel used when he first shared it on the internet in the mid-1990s.[1]
The basic principles of DC Training are as follows:
1. Heavy progressive weights
2. Lower volume of exercise (sets and reps)
3. Higher frequency of bodyparts hit
4. Rest-Pausing
5. Extreme stretching
6. Training periodization
This program is based upon the belief that heavy progressive weights provide the chief impetus for muscular growth. Dante believes that increases in strength are crucial to increases in muscle mass. This program differs from conventional high volume training programs in that it takes advantage of the principle that volume and frequency are inversely related. In other words, an individual that is able to train more frequently but with less volume can theoretically experience more opportunities for muscular growth. The caveat to this program is that the trainee must be able to train hard enough to induce the required muscular damage for progress to stimulate repair.
The staple technique of DC Training is rest-pause (RP) sets. These are in effect multiple sets separated by a short periods of rest. Rest-pause sets have also been found by Dante to provide for the most rapid gains in strength, which further validates its use for this program. For DC Training, 3 RP sets are used for most bodyparts with the exceptions of back thickness, quads, and calves. Each RP set is separated by 10-15 deep breaths.
After warming up, trainees will often rest-pause only one exercise to muscular failure. The trainee will exert maximum force for as many repetitions as possible, then "rest-pause" (take several deep breaths), again exert maximum force for as many repetitions as possible, rest-pause a second time, and exert maximum force for a third and final time for as many repetitions as possible. For most bodyparts, a total rep target (over the 3 RP sets) is 11-15 reps.
An example of rest-pausing on the incline bench press would be:
• 1 set 8 reps
• Rack the weight
• 10-15 deep breaths (usually 20-25 seconds)
• 1 set 4 reps
• Rack the weight
• 10-15 deep breaths
• 1 set 2 reps
Following the specific bodypart hit, the trainee will perform stretching to the point of pain, a practice called extreme stretching. Stretches are held for 60-90 seconds. These stretches serve many functions including fascial stretching and improving recovery. In addition, scientific studies have found stretching to increase muscle mass in birds.[2]
Because a trainee cannot physiologically or psychologically continue using maximum efforts indefinitely, a cyclic periodized approach is taken whereby a trainee "blasts" for a period of 6-12 weeks and then takes 10-14 days to "cruise" , train less intensely, and recover in preparation for the next blast.
DC Training by bodypart

Chest:
incline smythe press (11-15rp)
hammer strength press (11-15rp)
decline barbell press (11-15rp)

Backwidth:
front rack chins (11-20rp)
close grip pulldowns (11-15rp)
front pulldowns (11-15rp)

Backthickness: (back thickness exercises and quad exercises arent rest paused due to safety reasons of fatigue and loss of form)
deadlifts straight sets (6-9reps) + (9-12reps)
T-bar rows straight set (10-12 reps)
rack deadlifts (6-9reps) + (9-12reps)

Shoulders:
military presses (11-20rp)
hammer strength presses (11-15rp)
upright rows (11-20rp)

Quads: (quads are done again with no rest pause because of safety reasons, but after progressive warmups there is a heavy set and then what I call a "widowmaker set" for 20 reps with a still heavy, but lighter weight)

free squats (6-10 rep straight set) 3-5 minute rest and then (20 rep widowmaker)
hack squats (as above)
leg press (as above)

Hamstrings:
lying leg curls (15-30rp)
seated leg curls (15-30rp)
sumo press leg press (pressing with heels only- straight set of 15-25 reps)

Biceps:
preacher curls (11-20rp)
barbell drag curls (11-20rp)
dumbell curls (11-20rp)

Forearms:
pinwheel curls (straight set 10-20 reps)
hammer curls (straight set 10-20 reps)
reverse grip one arm cable curls (straight set 10-20 reps)

Triceps:
reverse grip bench presses (11-20rp)
close grip bench presses (11-20rp)
EZ bar tricep extentions (15-30rp) (elbow safety)

Calves: (all calves are done with an enhanced negative, meaning up on big toe, 5 seconds lowering down to full stretch and then a brutal 10-15 seconds in the stretched position and then back up on the big toe again. It really separates the mice and the men--this is an all straight set)
leg press toe press (10-12 reps)
hack squat toe press/sled (10-12 reps)
seated calf raises (10-12 reps)

*** Each working set is preceded by one to five warm-up sets.

*** The additional set of 10-12 reps for rack and regular deadlifts, as well as the 20-rep additional "widowmakers" for quads, is performed after a rest and with lighter (but still heavy) weights.

*** Abs can be trained on any day, typically with one warm-up set and one working set to failure of both a crunching movement and a leg-raise movement. Working sets can be either rest-pause sets for 20-30 reps or straight sets for 15-20 reps.



REPS PER
EXERCISE WORKING SET

"A" WORKOUTS

CHEST
1 Incline Smith machine presses 11-15 rest-pause
3 Flat-bench barbell presses 11-15 rest-pause
5 Hammer Strength chest presses 11-15 rest-pause

SHOULDERS
1 Military presses 11-20 rest-pause
3 Medium-grip upright rows 11-15 rest-pause
5 Smith machine shoulder presses 11-20 rest-pause

TRICEPS
1 Close-grip bench presses 11-20 rest-pause
3 Lying triceps extensions 15-30 rest-pause
5 Machine dips 11-20 rest-pause

BACK (WIDTH)
1 Hammer Strength 11-15 rest-pause
underhand pulldowns
3 Front wide-grip pulldowns 11-15 rest-pause
5 Close-grip pulldowns 11-15 rest-pause

BACK (THICKNESS)
1 Deadlifts 6-9 + 9-12
3 Rack deadlifts 6-9 + 9-12
5 T-bar rows 10-12

"B" WORKOUTS

BICEPS
2 Barbell drag curls 11-20 rest-pause
4 Seated dumbbell curls 11-20 rest-pause
6 Machine curls 11-20 rest-pause

FOREARMS
2 Hammer curls 10-20
4 Barbell wrist curls 10-20
6 Cable reverse curls 10-20

CALVES*
2 Leg-press toe presses 10-12
4 Machine donkey calf raises 10-12
6 Seated calf raises 10-12

HAMSTRINGS
2 Lying leg curls 15-30 rest-pause
4 Sumo leg presses (feet high and wide, 15-25
press with heels)
6 Seated leg curls 15-30 rest-pause

QUADRICEPS
2 Squats 4-8 + 20
4 Hack squats 4-8 + 20
6 Leg presses 4-8 + 20

* All calf exercises are done with an enhanced negative portion of the
rep. Each rep consists of five seconds of lowering down to a full
stretch, a 10- to 15-second hold in the stretched position, then rising
onto the toes.

WORKOUT SCHEDULE

Monday Wednesday Friday

Week 1 1(A) 2(B) 3(A)
Week 2 4(B) 5(A) 6(B)

NOTES: The numbers 1 through 6 correspond to the exercise numbers in the
Doggcrapp cycle chart. Follow a pattern of A and B workouts for the
bodypart split. Beginning with week 3, this pattern repeats, starting
with the #1 exercises.


ALSO I FOUND


If you've read more than two articles I've written then you should know that I favor unconventional training methodologies that push and challenge both body and mind. I firmly believe that this is the only way to get really big and hit your goals. From that perspective DoggCrapp Training (a.k.a. DC Training) definitely fits the bill. This incredibly intense program includes heavy progressive weights, lower volume/higher frequency of body parts trained, high intensity/rest-pause training, extreme stretching, a high protein diet and periodization ("blasting" and "cruising"). Here are the basics:
Lower volume/higher frequency:
In most training routines you train each body part once a week doing 3-4 different exercises per muscle group. With DC Training, you only do 1-2 exercise per muscle group per day but you're hitting each muscle group twice every 8 days. The lower volume of exercises means that your body can recover more rapidly, which in turn allows for a short turnaround between training sessions;
Exercise rotation:
The base program runs on a cycle hitting every body part 2 times every 8 days. It's not as complicated as it sounds-you start by picking 3 exercises for each the various muscle groups like this: chest, back (width), back (thickness), delts, triceps, biceps, forearms and calves, hamstrings and quads. You do only one of those exercises per muscle group per workout but then you rotate to the next exercise in the following workout. Remember though that you're doing each exercise 3 times to total failure in each workout so don't fool yourself into thinking it's easy. Here is what a sample routine might look like:
• Monday: Chest, shoulders, triceps and back (width and thickness);
• Wednesday: Biceps, forearms, calves, hamstrings and quads;
• Friday: Chest, shoulders, triceps and back (width and thickness);
• Monday: Biceps, forearms, calves, hamstrings and quads;
So you can see how every 8 days you've cycled through each body part twice, doing a different one of each of the 3 exercises you've chosen per workout. Keeping a training journal can keep you organized and help keep track of where you are in the training cycle;
High intensity/rest-pause training:
DC Training demands intensity. To begin, you do 2-5 warm-up sets (lighter weight) before the first set is performed to failure followed by 10-15 deep breaths before performing another set to failure. This is again followed by 10-15 deep breaths and then a final set to failure before moving on to the next exercise or muscle group. The goal is to explode on the uplift and descend with a controlled negative of about 6-8 seconds. You've got to be prepared both mentally and physically to take on Rest-Pause training though because instead of taking a one or two minute break between sets, you're only resting for 20-30 seconds between each one;

Diet:
The DC Training diet is very high in protein with a recommended intake of between 1.5 to 2.0 grams per pound of body weight;
Periodization:
The "blasting" phase is 6-12 weeks of high intensity, all-out training followed by a "cruising" phase of 10-14 days of maintenance training before repeating the cycle once again;
One of the nice things about DC Training is that it leaves plenty of room for customization. For example, instead of Monday-Wednesday-Friday-Monday, you could do Monday-Tuesday-Thursday-Friday but split the workout into 3 parts in order to shorten your training sessions (great if you've got a hectic schedule). Day 1 could include chest, shoulders and triceps. On Day 2 you could train biceps, forearms and back (width and thickness) and on Day 3 you could work calves, hamstrings and quads. This cuts your workout down to about 35 minutes including stretching but still has you hitting each body part twice in 9 days.
A lot of guys have had phenomenal results following the DC Training program. If you're going to do it though, be prepared to really commit yourself to doing it right. DC Training requires you to push your body as far as it can go and then some-that's why it works. To get the best results you've got to be prepared to give it your all and make it a really intense workout, pushing on for one more rep even when your mind and body are screaming "No!" If not, you'll just be wasting your time.

Stay with me here--You're only doing one exercise per muscle group per day. Your doing your first favorite exercise for chest on day one--your doing your second favorite exercise for chest on the next chest workout and your third exercise for chest on the next. You're hitting every body part twice in 8 days. The volume on everything is simply as many warm-up sets as you need to do- to be ready for your ONE work set. That can be two warm-up sets for a small muscle group or five warm-up sets for a large muscle group on heavy exercise like rack deadlifts. The ONE work set is either a straight set or a rest pause set (depending on your recovery abilities again). For people on the lowest scale of recovery its just that one straight set---next up is a straight set with statics for people with slightly better than that recovery----next up is rest pausing (on many of the of movements) with statics for people with middle of the road recovery on up. Three key exercises are picked for each body part (hypothetically we will use flat dumbell bench press, incline smith bench press, and hammer press) ---USING ONLY ONE OF THOSE EXERCISES PER WORKOUT you rotate these in order and take that exercise to it's ultimate strength limit (where at that point you change the exercise and get brutally strong on that new movement too).

Alternate Programs:
MON TUES THURS FRI- For people who have (above normal) recovery ability (hitting body parts twice in that time-or twice in 7 days)

MON WED FRI MON- For pretty much the norm of society with average recovery ability--hitting body parts twice every 8 days

MON TUES THURS FRI- With body split into three parts-for people with hectic schedules these are extremely short workouts yet stay roughly in the same scheme as the above.
On this schedule someone would group body parts like the following:

DAY ONE:
Chest
Shoulders
Triceps
(Stretches)

DAY TWO:
Biceps
Forearms
(Stretches)
Back width
Back thickness

DAY THREE:
Calves
Hamstrings
Quads
(Stretches)

In the first week of doing this, day one would be hit on Friday again and then the Monday of the following week would be Day 2 again, Tuesday would be Day 3, Wednesday off, Thursday-day one again etc. You would still be hitting body parts twice every 9 days and these workouts would be about 35 minutes tops.

Set & Exercise Examples:

Example Day One:
First exercise smith incline presses (ill use the weights I use for example) 135 for warm-up for 12--185 for 8 warm-up--225 for 6-8 warm-up-----then 375 for 8 reps to total absolute failure (then 12-15 deep breaths) 375 for 2-4 reps to total absolute failure (then 12-15 deep breaths) 375 for 1-3 reps to absolute total failure (then a 20-30 second static hold) DONE!--that's it 375lbs for 8+4+3= 375 for 15 reps rest paused..... next week I go for 385 (again rest paused)-----directly after that rest pause set I go to extreme stretching flyes and that's it for chest and on to shoulders, triceps and back........the next day I come in to do chest would be day 4 and I would do hammer flat presses in the same rest paused manner (and then extreme stretching again)---the next day I come in to do chest is day seven and I would do my third favorite exercise rest paused and then the cycle repeats. Three chest workouts in nine days with low enough volume to recover in between workouts and high enough intensity and load to grow rapidly--my workouts last an hour—I'm doing one exercise for one all out balls to the wall rest pause set (I don't count warm-ups only the working set) ---so in simple terms I am using techniques with extreme high intensity (rest pause) which I feel make a persons strength go up as quickly as possible + low volume so I can (recover) as quickly as possible with as many growth phases (damage/remodel/recover) I can do in a years time.

Just in case any of you were confused every body part is hit 3 times in 9 days and advanced techniques such as rest pause is used (if it can be used)....Some exercises like hack squats and some back rowing exercises don't allow themselves to rest pausing too well. A sample couple of days for me would be the following (I'm not including warm-up sets--just working sets):

Day One:
Chest- Smith incline 375 x 15 reps rest pause (RP) and 20 second static rep at end
Shoulders- Front smith press-330 x 13RP
Triceps- Reverse grip bench 315 for 15-20 reps rest paused
Back width- Rear pull downs to back of head 300 x 18RP (20 second static at end)
Back thickness- Dead lifts straight set of 12-20 reps

Day Two:
Biceps- Dumbbell curls rest paused for 20 reps
Forearms- Hammer curls rest paused for 15
Calves- On hack squat straight set for 12 reps but with a 20 second negative phase
Hamstrings- Lying leg curl rest paused for 15-20 reps and then 20 second static at end
Quads- Hack squat straight set of 6 plates each side for 20 reps (of course after warming up)

Stretching:

CHEST: Flat bench 90lb dumbbells chest high--lungs full of air-- I drop down into the deepest flye I can for the first 10 seconds or so with my lungs full of air and chest out---then staying there I arch my back slightly and try to press my sternum upward --this is absolutely excruciating--the rest of the 60 seconds I try to concentrate on dropping my elbows even farther down (I try to but I don't think they are going any lower--LOL)---the last 15 seconds I'm pretty much shaking like a leaf, I have tears in my eyes and I think about dropping bodybuilding and becoming a tap dancer on Broadway (ok that parts not true)--My opinion is people should use dumbbells that are a little over half of what your heaviest set of 6-8 reps would be. I cant state this enough--extreme stretching royally sucks!!! Its painful. But I have seen amazing things with people -especially in the quads.

TRICEPS: Seated on a flat bench-my back up against the barbell---75lb dumbell in my hand behind my head (like in an overhead dumbell extension)--sink dumbell down into position for the first 10 seconds and then an agonizing 50 seconds slightly leaning back and pushing the dumbell down with the back of my head I like one arm at a time in the bottom position of a dumbell triceps extension----going to the extreme stretch and then slightly pushing on the dumbell with the back of my head.

SHOULDERS: This one is tough to describe--put a barbell in the squat rack shoulder height--face away from it and reach back and grab it palms up (hands on bottom of bar)---walk yourself outward until you are on your heels and the stretch gets painful--then roll your shoulders downward and hold for 60 seconds.

BICEPS: Olympic bar in a power rack or squat rack about neck high---face away from it and reach back and put both hands over the bar gripping it----now either sink down with one leg forward/one leg back or better yet squat down and try (I say try because its absolutely excruciating) to kneel. Go down to the stretch that is almost unbearable and then hold that for 45 to 60 seconds. Your own bodyweight is the load. What I do is put the bar at a place on the squat rack in which I can kneel at a severe stretch and then try to sink my ass down to touch my feet. If its too easy I put the bar up to the next rung.

BACK: Honestly for about 3 years my training partner and I would hang a 100lb dumbell from our waist and hung on the widest chin-up bar (with wrist straps) to see who could get closest to 3 minutes--I never made it--I think 2 minutes 27 seconds was my record--but my back width is by far my best body part--I pull on a doorknob or stationary equipment with a rounded back now and its way too hard too explain here--just try it and get your feel for it.

HAMSTRINGS: Either leg up on a high barbell holding my toe and trying to force my leg straight with my free hand for an excruciating painful 60 seconds or another exercise I could only show people and not type here.

QUADS: Facing a barbell in a power rack about hip high --grip it and simultaneously sink down and throw your knees under the barbell and do a sissy squat underneath it while going up on your toes. then straighten your arms and lean as far back as you can---60 seconds and if this one doesn't make you hate my guts and bring tears to your eyes nothing will---do this one faithfully and tell me in 4 weeks if your quads don't look a lot different than they used to.

CALVES: my weak body part that I couldn't get up too par until 2 years ago when I finally thought it out and figured out how to make them grow (with only one set twice a week too) I don't need to stretch calves after because when I do calves I explode on the positive and take 5 seconds to get back to full stretch and then 15 seconds at the very bottom "one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand etc" --15 seconds stretching at the bottom thinking and trying to flex my toes toward my shin--it is absolutely unbearable and you will most likely be shaking and want to give up at about 7 reps (I always go for 12reps with maximum weights)--do this on a hack squat or a leg press--my calves have finally taken off due to this.
 
youngmusclejock

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You're really over thinking this.
 
MrChewiebitums

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sounds like its a lot of over complicated-puffy-chest-try-to-be-hardcore-only-because-its-cool stuff

who the hell names something doggcrapp?
 

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El Freako

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sounds like its a lot of over complicated-puffy-chest-try-to-be-hardcore-only-because-its-cool stuff

who the hell names something doggcrapp?

:doh: Not again. Do you live under a rock? And did you have to go to school to become this ignorant?
 
tim290280

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:doh: Not again. Do you live under a rock? And did you have to go to school to become this ignorant?

:turborun: I know the answer to this one. It's the second one isn't it. :borat:






On the DC thing: use that template or don't, whatever. There is nothing amazing about it. The only thing I would say is that "extreme stretching" is one of the most stupid ideas that anyone could possibly incorporate into training.

Pick a template and give it your all for a few months. Then use something else. Eventually you'll come around to the upper/lower or fullbody workouts that offer frequency and flexibility for life.
 

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