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New 3-split

Svartberg

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Hello there. I've grown tired of my 3-split routine which is the traditional:
Day 1: pecs, delts triceps
Day 2: back, biceps, rear delt
Day 3: (lowerbody) quads, hams, lower back, calves and abs etc.

Is there any other (effective) way to put this up? I'd just like to keep my training interesting ;)
I wouldnt mind doing (examplewise) biceps after a back day, as I'm gonna be using straps on my back workouts from now on, reducing some stress on the biceps
 
Cork

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If I were doing a 3 day split, I would switch to full body.
 
Svartberg

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If I were you, I wouldn't even be commenting on this thread.
 
tim290280

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If I were you, I wouldn't even be commenting on this thread.

Play nice. :bball:

What actual exercises are you doing?
Is this 3 day split repeated or only once a week? Do you have 3 days to train or more days?
Do you deliberately train push/pull/legs or is this a happy accident? If so have you considered Upper/lower?
Why straps?
 
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The split looks fine.

But if you only train 3 days a week, i would say that your better off with a fullbody.

If you on the other hand can train 6 days a week, go for it :)
 
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Just a guess, but I think he didn't like the answer, because it doesn't really give an answer to his question. But the tone is a bit rough.

I believe he trains 6 on, 1 off. Straps is for minimizing the stress that *insert name* rows and such inflict on the arms, making them take more of the load, than the actual target-muscles.

But why do a FB? If he likes 3 splits, as I do, there's no good reason as to why one should start FB - because it'd plain boring.

When saying FB - what's the argument? That it's more fun, or that it's more effective. When answering, please devide it into effect and personal opinion :)
 
tim290280

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Just a guess, but I think he didn't like the answer, because it doesn't really give an answer to his question. But the tone is a bit rough.

I believe he trains 6 on, 1 off. Straps is for minimizing the stress that *insert name* rows and such inflict on the arms, making them take more of the load, than the actual target-muscles.

But why do a FB? If he likes 3 splits, as I do, there's no good reason as to why one should start FB - because it'd plain boring.

When saying FB - what's the argument? That it's more fun, or that it's more effective. When answering, please devide it into effect and personal opinion :)

Creator is one of the more knowledgable people here, so he isn't just saying Fullbody because his bros at the gym said it was making them swole :rofl3:

The reason for fullbody is that it increases frequency which is good for hypertrophy and strength gains.

The reason I asked the questions was to illucidate why there was the hostility to anything other than a split and to work out what he was actually doing. A lot of people who think they have a split are actually working FB, U/L or in this case push/pull/legs.

Also straps are a great excuse for weakness. "Hitting the target muscle" is wimp for "I'm not strong in the right places".
 
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Yeah, that much I know. But a proper reason as to why would still be nice. The thing about hitting the target muscle is quite straight forward - if you have a weak grip, then your target muscle will, at high rep e.g., suffer from the missing strength.

The obvious solution would be grip-work, but doing that on the side and still using straps won't hurt, if you ask me. It seems better than to neglect using the full potential of the back muscles, while training the grip.
 
tim290280

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Yeah, that much I know. But a proper reason as to why would still be nice.
I thought I had explained the reason:
Tim said:
The reason for fullbody is that it increases frequency which is good for hypertrophy and strength gains.

Jasper said:
The thing about hitting the target muscle is quite straight forward - if you have a weak grip, then your target muscle will, at high rep e.g., suffer from the missing strength.

The obvious solution would be grip-work, but doing that on the side and still using straps won't hurt, if you ask me. It seems better than to neglect using the full potential of the back muscles, while training the grip.
I know this is a matter of opinion and training ethos, but my convictions are very clear. If you can't hold a weight to lift it, then you can't lift it. Tying yourself to a weight in order to move it and "target a muscle" is just ridiculous.

Now I can understand it for a pro-BBer or pro-WLer or pro-PLer because they are already at a level were their weakpoints are something that they are targeting or grip is something that they may easily overtrain. But an amateur who is just training in the gym or even just doing local comps should be thinking more about training the body not the parts.

To state the argument another way, we wouldn't support the idea of an abs, biceps and pecs routine. This may be all that anyone is interested in training, but it doesn't negate the importance of the other areas of the body. Grip is just one aspect of training that people seem to want to use a crutch for because it isn't sexy like back or a huge deadlift. Ego has no place in training, it gets people hurt.

But feel free to ignore training grip and use straps, wraps, belts, whatever else you want. Doesn't impress anyone, better to be working on bringing up weaknesses than emphasising strengths.
 

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Okay sorry I didn't elaborate more, but it was mentioned that a FB split would help with frequency and volume. When I hear people doing 3 day splits, it is my first instinct to think that they do 3 day splits because it is the only amount of time they can get to the gym in a week.

Since he is doing 6 days on and 1 day off, FB is not the best idea. You can't blame me for not elaborating when the OP didn't even give all the details. Plus, why would you come to a forum, ask for comments and help, then shoot down the first person trying to give you options?:shakefist:
 
Bulkboy

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But feel free to ignore training grip and use straps, wraps, belts, whatever else you want. Doesn't impress anyone, better to be working on bringing up weaknesses than emphasising strengths.

you know i respect your opinion alot when it comes to the field of excersise tim. however i have to state that, atleast for me, it isnt about impressing anyone by using equipment. i think everyone can agree that it is more impressive to deadlift 250 kg without belt and straps than with. but myself and alot of others who train for bodybuilding and aestethics mainly, cant be bothered by that consern. one have to consider injury risk/goal achievement as well. remember we among other things talked about injury risk when it comes to deadlifting with the under/over grip? now i got up to the point where i could deadlift 180 kg for 10+ reps without straps when using the over/under grip. but after reading Ironslaves posts and watching those videos i decided to go back to the double over grip. what i found was i lost about 40 kg on my deadlift solely because my grip gave out before my back. now i as alot of other shorter guys(175cm) have somewhat small hands that naturally is gonna limit my grip. its not an excuse as much as a recognition of genetic limitations when it comes to the grip issue as well. i do agree that everyone should train grip to get stronger and everyone should also deadlift as much as possible without the straps before using them. but for me, its not acceptable to limit my lifting capability with 30-40 kg and thereby effectively limit back hypertrophy. now had i been training for powerlifting it would have been a different ball game. but as i have no interest in that whatsoever, i dont see why i would be doing it. it becomes an ego issue, only in the other direction. ure right that some people use straps to boost their ego. i am not one of those. i know very well that my deadlift max is 30-40 kg lower when not using straps, and i recognize that. but i do think maybe it is alittle bit about ego in ur case as well? that u take so much pride in not using equipment, that maybe it may be detrimental to some parts of your training? i speak for myself when stating that using a belt has helped my lower back, and using wrist wraps when doing presses have definetely helped my wrists as well. at the end of the day, injury prevention and hypertrophy comes before being able to say i lift all raw. i respect your decision to not use equipment, but that should also go in the other direction. you should respect that people with other goals choose to use it.

oh, and btw, straps are allowed in strongman;) and i think we can all agree that strongman is manlier than powerlifting:p
 
Svartberg

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Okay sorry I didn't elaborate more, but it was mentioned that a FB split would help with frequency and volume. When I hear people doing 3 day splits, it is my first instinct to think that they do 3 day splits because it is the only amount of time they can get to the gym in a week.

Since he is doing 6 days on and 1 day off, FB is not the best idea. You can't blame me for not elaborating when the OP didn't even give all the details. Plus, why would you come to a forum, ask for comments and help, then shoot down the first person trying to give you options?:shakefist:

Sorry, I thought it was obvious. I'm training 6 days on, and one day off. Now you know :)
TL;DR on the rest of this, I'm ignoring every single comment which seems to be irelevant with my question.

EDIT:
I read a single post though. Tim, saying "more freq with fb" is NOT going to convince anyone to go from their beloved split to a 3 or 4 days a week workout.
 
tim290280

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you know i respect your opinion alot when it comes to the field of excersise tim. however i have to state that, atleast for me, it isnt about impressing anyone by using equipment. i think everyone can agree that it is more impressive to deadlift 250 kg without belt and straps than with. but myself and alot of others who train for bodybuilding and aestethics mainly, cant be bothered by that consern. one have to consider injury risk/goal achievement as well. remember we among other things talked about injury risk when it comes to deadlifting with the under/over grip? now i got up to the point where i could deadlift 180 kg for 10+ reps without straps when using the over/under grip. but after reading Ironslaves posts and watching those videos i decided to go back to the double over grip. what i found was i lost about 40 kg on my deadlift solely because my grip gave out before my back. now i as alot of other shorter guys(175cm) have somewhat small hands that naturally is gonna limit my grip. its not an excuse as much as a recognition of genetic limitations when it comes to the grip issue as well. i do agree that everyone should train grip to get stronger and everyone should also deadlift as much as possible without the straps before using them. but for me, its not acceptable to limit my lifting capability with 30-40 kg and thereby effectively limit back hypertrophy. now had i been training for powerlifting it would have been a different ball game. but as i have no interest in that whatsoever, i dont see why i would be doing it. it becomes an ego issue, only in the other direction. ure right that some people use straps to boost their ego. i am not one of those. i know very well that my deadlift max is 30-40 kg lower when not using straps, and i recognize that. but i do think maybe it is alittle bit about ego in ur case as well? that u take so much pride in not using equipment, that maybe it may be detrimental to some parts of your training? i speak for myself when stating that using a belt has helped my lower back, and using wrist wraps when doing presses have definetely helped my wrists as well. at the end of the day, injury prevention and hypertrophy comes before being able to say i lift all raw. i respect your decision to not use equipment, but that should also go in the other direction. you should respect that people with other goals choose to use it.

oh, and btw, straps are allowed in strongman;) and i think we can all agree that strongman is manlier than powerlifting:p

It was our previous conversations on this topic that lead to my understanding that it can be about training ethos and not just ego. :thumbsup2:

I think that there is a difference between the beginer, intermediate and someone like ourselves, experienced/advanced intermediate. The first two categories have no business targeting anything or using training aids. I do see a place for straps (the reference to the strongmen now using them on some events is a great example), especially with high training volume, but generally they are used prematurely or abused. The examples you cite are actually somewhere between valid and invalid, in that you are using your grip just not on high rep deadlifts. I'm concerned about the bicep tear possibility, but I've never thought this would be an issue other than with repeated high rep work or hiking.

And yes you are probably correct, my training ethos is a point of pride. I could do with some wrist wraps (I have a small frame and my wrist is giving me problems), I'm sure I could lift a shitload more with a belt and knee wraps, but I won't let myself. Why? Training for me isn't about just lifting, or just getting big, it is about testing myself. You can't test yourself if you have to use every gadget. You can't transfer this over to life either. "I'll save you miss, just let me get my belt, and my wraps, and I'll just wind my straps around your wrist, and then we'll be good to go!"

I'd just say that don't let ego get in the way of making a real decision in how you train. I made that mistake when I first started squatting. Took me 10yrs to fix that mistake and learn to squat properly.
 
tim290280

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Sorry, I thought it was obvious. I'm training 6 days on, and one day off. Now you know :)
TL;DR on the rest of this, I'm ignoring every single comment which seems to be irelevant with my question.

EDIT:
I read a single post though. Tim, saying "more freq with fb" is NOT going to convince anyone to go from their beloved split to a 3 or 4 days a week workout.

Your loss. Keep doing what you're doing, get what you always got :gaysign:
 
El Freako

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Sorry, I thought it was obvious. I'm training 6 days on, and one day off. Now you know :)
TL;DR on the rest of this, I'm ignoring every single comment which seems to be irelevant with my question.

EDIT:
I read a single post though. Tim, saying "more freq with fb" is NOT going to convince anyone to go from their beloved split to a 3 or 4 days a week workout.

Then you're probably ignoring a lot of relevant information.

On topic: what is your training goal as this can lend some idea to others of what sort of program you're interested in.

For instance, if you were a strength/powerlifting orientated lifter I might suggest an UPPER/LOWER/ASSISTANCE or SQUAT/BENCH/DEADLIFT routine. However if you're a bodybuilder/physique trainer then I also wouldn't dismiss these out of hand as you don't find many small powerlifters.
 
Svartberg

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Bodybuilder, my dear friend. Still a 3-split, still asking for a new way to put it together.
 
El Freako

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Why not try U/L/A then as I mentioned.
 
Svartberg

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Why not try U/L/A then as I mentioned.

I've never tried splitting it like that, so could you be more specific?

I'd figure it'd be something like this:

Upper: Chest and back
Lower: Quads, hams and calves/abs
Assistance: Arms, abs/calves and delts

Or am I wrong? Please correct me :)
 

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