you wanted a natural example. i said it would take longer.
how does it not prove my point? look around at all the client transformations on that site. oh shit looks to me as if these people are gaining muscle while burning fat. i posted the first one i saw. sorry it wasn't up to your standards, but nothing will unless it was posted in a medical science book.
His point is that you have to look at the time in which these people make these transformations... if you average them out then there is plenty of time for bulk/diet type phases... or accidental bulk/diet phases.
I'm going to assume you believe what pros say about training/nutrition and what's written in magazines.
here's another good diet program justwonderin. if your natural just reduce the amount of shakes or take them out completely. obviously your not trying to get into comp shape but it's a good fat burning diet. so you can run it untill you reach your goal then phase out of it.
anyways all i'm trying to say is if you have the mindset that something is impossible then it damn sure will be, but if you believe in breaking barriers and making shit happen then you can do anything. make the impossible possible! it's all in your mindset.
did bruce lee give up after the doctors said he would never walk again? no! he said fuck that shit i'm gonna come outta here and side kick your ass across the room. we're here to inspire people not set barriers.
Steroids prevent muscle catabolism which is one trait. Steroids also increases protein synthesis which is an entirely different trait than their anticatabolic function.
Increasing protein consumption as high as suggested just because someone is on gear is only a good idea if the person is lifting heavier or uses higher volume while weight training while on steroids. Which in turn will cause the persons body to require the extra protein. The protein intake should match the needs of the athlete. To go above and beyond to ridiculous amounts is not necessary even while on steroids. Match what the athlete needs not what some pro tells someone all the other pros are doing.
also how did AAS get brought up?? who said anything about that?
How in the world did I miss out on this thread???? I have a few points that I would like to make.
1) When you add AAS into the mix, it changes everything. There is a little thing called ethics that gets in the way of doing actual science in regards to anabolics and human use thereof. You can not take ANYTHING that a user does and apply it to a natural because it is a completely different environment.
2) Aside from the de-trained state (which none of use should fall into because, after all, this is a bodybuilding forum) to gain any significant muscle while losing any significant fat is simply an oxymoron. Again, anabolics will change this so lets assume that we are talking about the natural athlete. It is quite simple and refers to the first law of thermodynamics; you must be in a caloric deficit to burn fat. The process of burning fat is a catabolic process. You must be in a caloric surplus to gain muscle. The process of gaining muscle is an anabolic process.
3) Protein requirements are based on many factors. One of these factors is total body weight but even more importantly is lean tissue. I cant take my 300 lb client that wants to lose fat and gain muscle and tell him to consume 450 grams of protein when he is 40% body fat. This being said, the grams/kg measurement is sufficient if not more than sufficient in most all cases. I will admit that I exceed this measurement in the very final weeks before competition but that is a completely different scenario than what justwonderin is referring to. When all other macronutrients are brought down to bring out extreme muscle definition and rid the body of excess water, the calories are made up through the only sensible macronutrient for a short period of time in order to prevent muscle loss. This is extreme and is not beneficial at any other time.
4) Science is fact.