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Buckethead and Vai Suck

tim290280

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I know that there are some Buckethead fans here, and I'm sure all guitarists recognise Vai. The purpose of this thread is to prove to me that these guys don't suck.

Now I'm not arguing that they aren't two of the most talented guitarists to ever grace this planet, but after reading a Guitar World article I've been trolling through some of their "greatest songs" only to be duely uninspired. These guys just lack soul. I know that one of Buckethead's biggest criticisms is that he lacks feeling in his music, and I agree.

Case in point:



Amazing sound and brilliant use of his kill switch.




Brutally heavy main riff, great song progression.

Both offer absolutely nothing to the listener in terms of energy and soul. You can't help but be amazed by his music but could just have easily been listening to elevator music for how inspired you are after it is done. He puts so much effort into being amazing yet a band like AC/DC can write a three chord song and play it for their entire career and still amaze people.

Now Vai.



Sounds more like a guy just having an unispired jangle on the guitar than something you would bother recording.

I've heard a lot of Vai over the years, usually incidentally (like on Korn, or his guest spots on soundtracks, or with Public Image LTD, etc) and his lead work always seems to intrude on the music rather than add to it. Great guitarist, crap at actually capturing the soul of the music.


So post the videos and your explanation of why they do have soul/feeling/etc to show that these guys don't suck. While you're at it, add some guys to the list. Which other solo guitarists suck?
 
Skeptic

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To me, playing with soul is playing exactly whats needed in a song/passage/riff. To me Steve vai does this.

The point of buckethead is mechanical. There isn't much else. Except for these.







These to me, show Steve Vai plays with soul.








 
tim290280

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To me, playing with soul is playing exactly whats needed in a song/passage/riff. To me Steve vai does this.

I completely agree (except with the Vai bit obviously). Listen to George Harrison: he famously had an all night guitar duel with Eric Clapton, stood toe to toe with a guitar legend, yet George barely ever did anything particularly flashy or salivating. He did what needed to be done to enhance the song and typifies what lead guitar playing is all about.

The point of buckethead is mechanical. There isn't much else. Except for these.





Sorry but even those examples aren't great.

These to me, show Steve Vai plays with soul.


I would concede that this was soulfull. But he has also had to take a huge step back from his normal flare.

Both meh. The first of these two had elements of soul, but was disqualified by the fact he was wearing a suit without a shirt. :talkhand:
 
Skeptic

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So the music is irrelavant to you, in place of what they wear? lol

Like you said soul is irrelevant of skill. But if you have the skill, why not use it to help portray your type of soul in the way you choose?

The type of soul George harrison and Eric Clapton is different to Steve Vai, totally different playing styles.

Next you'll try to compare BB King and Yngwie Malmsteen :keke:
 
tim290280

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So the music is irrelavant to you, in place of what they wear? lol
Lol, I was being dismissive of those two examples for more than that. They weren't really great.

Like you said soul is irrelevant of skill. But if you have the skill, why not use it to help portray your type of soul in the way you choose?

The type of soul George harrison and Eric Clapton is different to Steve Vai, totally different playing styles.
I agree completely. This is were I think that Joe Satriani is a great example of skill and soul that is comparable to Buckethead and Vai:




edit: In the interest of fairness (after my Vai shirt comment) Satriani is suffering from a case of the Bono's here :shakefist:

Next you'll try to compare BB King and Yngwie Malmsteen :keke:
Wasn't trying to draw that sort of parallel, just illustrate that you can have chops without having to shove them down people's throats without creating something worthwhile to support the chop's use.
 
Anabolicus

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Pretty bold words saying that they suck due to the lack of soul which is entirely your personal opinion.

Neither of these guys left me cold nor unemotional. I've succesfully graduated music school which lasted for 7 years so I don't consider myself a total newb.

I'm sure that many guys might disagree with me but I believe that if you have crazy skills you will have soul in it as well. Every person who's blessed with musicality and managed to reach that high like the guys you posted can't have no soul in their pieces of work.

Maybe theyre just not you cup of tea, otherwise you're looking for something that does not exist.
 
tim290280

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Pretty bold words saying that they suck due to the lack of soul which is entirely your personal opinion.

Neither of these guys left me cold nor unemotional. I've succesfully graduated music school which lasted for 7 years so I don't consider myself a total newb.

I'm sure that many guys might disagree with me but I believe that if you have crazy skills you will have soul in it as well. Every person who's blessed with musicality and managed to reach that high like the guys you posted can't have no soul in their pieces of work.

Maybe theyre just not you cup of tea, otherwise you're looking for something that does not exist.

:rofl3:

Stop taking this so seriously. I stated that because I had been uninspired by their music (albeit I can appreciate it and find their work amazing) I was challenging everyone here to prove that they don't suck.

What you have said is that I have an opinion. No, I have taken a position based on a limited exposure to these two artists. I want you to highlight some of their music and raise valid arguments showing that they don't suck.
 
Hypocrisy86

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Personal opinion Tim, thread fail.
i don't even listen to these guys.
 
MrChewiebitums

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i too found the thread to be a bit
Swiss_Retard1217463785-1.jpg


the only song i have heard and the begin bit i enjoy especially with words he uses.


 
Skeptic

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:rofl3:

Stop taking this so seriously. I stated that because I had been uninspired by their music (albeit I can appreciate it and find their work amazing) I was challenging everyone here to prove that they don't suck.

What you have said is that I have an opinion. No, I have taken a position based on a limited exposure to these two artists. I want you to highlight some of their music and raise valid arguments showing that they don't suck.

Technical ability and flashy playing seem to negate soul/feeling to you, it seems.

Joe Satriani, apart from being a great guitarist, is one of the most cliche solo guitarists around. Most of his stuff just comes off as cheesy.
 

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tim290280

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Hypo said:
Personal opinion Tim, thread fail.
i don't even listen to these guys.
Fuck off then. :e5dunno:

i too found the thread to be a bit
the only song i have heard and the begin bit i enjoy especially with words he uses.
Another Chewie wearing ignorance on his sleeve comment :bitelip:

What is it that is meant to appeal to the listener (me) about this song?

Technical ability and flashy playing seem to negate soul/feeling to you, it seems.

Joe Satriani, apart from being a great guitarist, is one of the most cliche solo guitarists around. Most of his stuff just comes off as cheesy.

No. No they don't. The guy from Symphony X is another example of flashy playing and technical ability, yet he has some amazing songs. John Petrucci is another example (not that I'm a huge fan of his).

On Joe; I've only really listened to his first album and haven't really given him much time other than that. I could agree that he could come off as cheesy. But do you see the distinction between his playing and Buckethead and to a lesser extent Vai? I think Surfing With the Alien was the first instrumental song I actually liked, it has energy that just seeps out of the speakers and into your body, it connects with you without the need for lyrics to coerce a response.
 
Skeptic

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There is a massive difference between Satch and Vai, but there is also a huge difference between Vai and Buckethead.

They all use different things to play their music.

Jason Becker? Great guitarist.


 
tim290280

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^^ He's ok. Emotive and decent, just not my cup of tea. Definitely got some chops on him and they fit well with what he is trying to convey.
 
tim290280

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Vai does have soul:




A pretty good example, yes. But why is it a good example?

Convince me.


Also I notice that Buckethead is getting no love. :rofl3:
 
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What is it that is meant to appeal to the listener (me) about this song?

the tune is one that tickles my fancy.. i mean for you to like a song has there got to be some deep meaning and elaborate lyrics and tune, not to mention "soul" in it. You sound a bit like my parents.. give them an instrumental, techno, soundtrack or anything foreign (ex. Rammstein) and for them its not music or a song because they cannot understand (rammstein) or there are no lyrics.


As such there is no good music and bad music, there is only music you like and music you dont like Why cant you just leave it at that?
and no, hitting some strings and banging some drums isnt music.
And just like movies, motivational speeches etc... touch us in different ways, so does music, so how can you so this peice of music sucks (Except if your talking about certain types of rap)
 
Skeptic

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the tune is one that tickles my fancy.. i mean for you to like a song has there got to be some deep meaning and elaborate lyrics and tune, not to mention "soul" in it. You sound a bit like my parents.. give them an instrumental, techno, soundtrack or anything foreign (ex. Rammstein) and for them its not music or a song because they cannot understand (rammstein) or there are no lyrics.


As such there is no good music and bad music, there is only music you like and music you dont like Why cant you just leave it at that?
and no, hitting some strings and banging some drums isnt music.
And just like movies, motivational speeches etc... touch us in different ways, so does music, so how can you so this peice of music sucks (Except if your talking about certain types of rap)

Shoosh, we were having a discussion.

A pretty good example, yes. But why is it a good example?

Convince me.


Also I notice that Buckethead is getting no love. :rofl3:

So, how is that Vai song a better example than the songs I posted?
 
tim290280

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Chewie said:
the tune is one that tickles my fancy.. i mean for you to like a song has there got to be some deep meaning and elaborate lyrics and tune, not to mention "soul" in it. You sound a bit like my parents.. give them an instrumental, techno, soundtrack or anything foreign (ex. Rammstein) and for them its not music or a song because they cannot understand (rammstein) or there are no lyrics.


As such there is no good music and bad music, there is only music you like and music you dont like Why cant you just leave it at that?
and no, hitting some strings and banging some drums isnt music.
And just like movies, motivational speeches etc... touch us in different ways, so does music, so how can you so this peice of music sucks (Except if your talking about certain types of rap)
Adults are talking. :talkhand:
Your post is insulting because you haven't even bothered to grasp the conversation at hand.

So, how is that Vai song a better example than the songs I posted?

I think for the same reason I liked the Tender Surrender but with the added flare he is known for. He had backed off from flashy playing to essentially do Clapton-esque playing, but for this example he still pulled out all the stops.

So between your example and co05's example I'm willing to conceed that Vai has soul. But now the troubling question is how does he manage to take all of that flare+talent+skill+knowledge and manage to be mostly mundane? Is it that he has based a career around "showing off" rather than serving the music? Or is it that I just don't value his music, either through little exposure or a lack of appreciation of musical style?

I'm still waiting for someone to show me Buckethead in a positive light.
 
Skeptic

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I know this is how I feel about a lot of his stuff. He's to eccentric in his playing to be really interesting a lot of the time. I don't think it has much to do with the technicallity or skill, but he plays a lot of weird stuff haha
 
Skeptic

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Soul players.






Not technically a guitar, but great anyway.


 
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