If this was Valentino you would be singing a different tune. But because this is Kai, a top tier pro, we are meant to be mindless fanboys?Quote
You created a strawman in order to draw a comparison to further your stance. This was inappropriate and flawed. All you did was further polarise the opinion. I also don't think Kai's popularity has anything to do with his notoriety.Quote
So you want us to like all athletes to stop us being so fickle by having us align our idolization with what is popular, so as to become fickle as popularity changes........:umwtf:Quote
Once again no-one has to love an athlete, any one sport, or be told they can't have a change of heart about their idols. I don't have to support or tolerate aspects of a sport or individuals within a sport, as long as I can justify my reasons and they are rational and well founded.
You weren't changing a popular belief. Your failed analogy was debased very simply due to the wholly differing contexts underlined. Now if you wanted to draw a comparison between JoJ (or another successful BodyBuilder that has posed nude for a fetish site) and Kai Greene then you would have had a better basis for your argument. But simply put people have a right to be outraged or disgusted or unperturbed by things, it is more about whether there is worthy and rational justification for their feelings about something.Quote
You are all racists!!!!!!!!!!
Leave KAI GREENE ALONE! :crymeariver:
Oh and obviously that would not be the response word for word but in conclusion, people would see that there's a clear difference between the two pics. Its not fucking hard. Seriously, I actually don't hate on Kai Greene though, I have a little respect for how hard he's had to work and I'm not a fan of Alexey Lesukov. So there's no biased in my point whatsoever.
Your goal Ben, whenever this thread finishes is to come round to sense and hopefully see that you are wrong about this.
Below is a large portion of what you've been saying here, which, again, has been completely unprovoked.
In full, it seems that, for whatever reason, you're completely ignoring the context of the situation and instead are substituting your own for no apparent reason aside from playing white knight for a full-grown man.
To say these pictures are the same is to say that you know what's going on before and after the picture of Alex was taken, which you don't. In the case of Kai, we have video proof of what happened. Your inference is largely inaccurate and entirely assumption based. Furthermore, you can't merely assume that, in the case that outsiders see the picture, they'll condemn bodybuilding. Alex's picture is innocent by nature. It is you, and only you, who is giving the picture overt sexual or fetishistic implications.
And my response, in this case, completely sidesteps the issue of you not knowing how people would react, yet you assume they'd be up in arms regardless. Seriously, you sound paranoid. Knock it off. Until Kai poses naked with an animal, such a topic should be a non-issue; just another straw man we can burn to the ground.
But wait! There's (apparently) more!
Irrelevant. Also, Google Kai Greene and Google Alexey Lesukov. Guess who has an awkward picture on the first page of image results.Originally Posted by BigBen
Yes, instead your tangential comparative rant got most of the heat, as it was fucking absurd.Originally Posted by BigBen
So instead of making a thread where we could have a somewhat calm, somewhat rational discussion about what it means to continuously defame Kai Greene, you decided to play Freud? I'm not entirely buying it and, moreover, I think you went about it in the worst way possible.Originally Posted by BigBen
But said attachment had no bearing on reality, which is why you got a predictably hostile response. You can't say that apples and oranges are the same and then say, "Oh, I was just being demonstrative, they're not really the same." In that case, A) no one is going to listen to you, and B) no knowledge of perspective is gained.Originally Posted by BigBen
I'm not sure where you're going with this...I made a point in the Kai Greene guestposing thread about tolerance, suggesting that we need to accept athletes in house and not worry about outsider criticism, but, at the same time, I respect an individual's free will to like and dislike things as they see fit, as Tim said, provided they have a grounded rationale for doing so.Originally Posted by BigBen
This is not your responsibility. It implies that you're somehow above the other members of this forum, as you're, in a sense, trying to psychologically experiment on them. "All in the name of tolerance!" you say, but you're not really perpetuating tolerance as much as you're further bridging the gap by calling attention to an issue that doesn't need it.Originally Posted by BigBen
I don't have to respect anything I don't want to and you can't make me.Originally Posted by BigBen
People can acknowledge one's accomplishment's but not respect them on personal or social levels. No one has to be a fan of anybody. It's called free will. And again, this is probably the worst concocted way of making a point about mindfulness that I've come across.Originally Posted by BigBen
To what end though? Oh wait, none.Originally Posted by BigBen
Did you ever think of the novel approach of just asking why people feel the way they do instead of trying to trick them with low-brow psychology?Originally Posted by BigBen
Sure, but, again-again, the crux of your approach is so off-the-wall that no one will possibly take anything you say that is serious the way it's meant to be understood. A key to debate or, rather, convincing others is to tell a "Big Lie," as most people find it so far fetched that they can't believe it's made up. Hitler did it. But you're argument wasn't so much a Big Lie as it is a gross misappropriation of moral standards, and everybody in this thread picked up on that. Ergo, your reasoning, and argument, fail.Originally Posted by BigBen
TO HELL WITH BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, I SAY!Originally Posted by BigBen
I prefer using a grapefruit anyway.Originally Posted by BigBen
True, but they should have rational justification.Originally Posted by BigBen
What is this I don't even?Originally Posted by BigBen
>Implying subcultures are meant to be, or can be, understood on global levels.Originally Posted by BigBen
Sports figures are hated the world over. Baseball fans hate certain players and teams, yet those individuals still have their fan base, which, in turn, still pays their salary. This is to be expected of all sports, bodybuilding notwithstanding.Originally Posted by BigBen