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Morning nutrition for Fatloss

MrChewiebitums

MrChewiebitums

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Would it be best to consume the fats(olive oil) before (with my whey) i do my morning cardio, or after, with the carbs?

I reckon the boost it would give to the what i am guessing are lower then usual test level you`d have when you wake up and so increase fat loss and decrease muscle loss? But what about the energy it would give you?

------

What is the point (and difference) of buying BCAAs/EAAs? Wouldn`t it be like *eating food with an incomplete AA profile making it bad at maintaining/building muscle?
Wouldnt you be better off with a regular shake due to the presence of all AAs?
During morning cardio, would the body utilise the energy from the shake and in doing so kind of throw off the whole point of morning cardio?

So would it be better to use the BCAAs/EAAs due to there only being a few grams of them and hence not much energy and possible only the most important ones for maintaining muscle are present?
But would such small amounts of AAs and only a handful at max of them be able to sufficiently feed all the muscles?

So say one consumed fats and a shake before morning cardio, wouldnt that be way too much energy and again throw off the whole point of morning cardio?

How long should you wait to begin cardio after you consume your protein/AAs (and fats if you`re consuming them as well)?


*(ignore absorption diff betw liquids and solids assuming its not part of the answer)
 
BigBen

BigBen

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Would it be best to consume the fats(olive oil) before (with my whey) i do my morning cardio, or after, with the carbs?

If weightloss is your goal you should have protein in water before your cardiovascular exercise. The purpose is to help maintain a positive nitrogen balance while you do cardiovascular exercise, and this will help save muscle and actually utilize more fat for energy than without the positive nitrogen balance.


I reckon the boost it would give to the what i am guessing are lower then usual test level you`d have when you wake up and so increase fat loss and decrease muscle loss? But what about the energy it would give you?

------

What is the point (and difference) of buying BCAAs/EAAs? Wouldn`t it be like *eating food with an incomplete AA profile making it bad at maintaining/building muscle?
You are asking what is the point of BCAA's? BCAA's have shown to add an anabolic and anti catabolic effect in skeletal muscle, and some amino acids when taken individually correlate with different anabolic hormones being secreted.


Wouldnt you be better off with a regular shake due to the presence of all AAs?

AA's used as a tool with proper diet can add to the result, but the core diet comes first, then the AA's are supplemented to that diet.

During morning cardio, would the body utilise the energy from the shake and in doing so kind of throw off the whole point of morning cardio?
You have to keep in mind that initially your body has been starved or 6-8 hours bc of sleep. When you wake initially you are catabolic. Take some whey protein in water to ensure a positive nitrogen balance and then do cardiovascular exercise.


So would it be better to use the BCAAs/EAAs due to there only being a few grams of them and hence not much energy and possible only the most important ones for maintaining muscle are present?

Try using both, if you had to pick one or the other i would pick the protein. Chemically their is more energy and more AA's in 40g of whey protein than in a serving of AA's that only has 8 g of protein in it. Proteins are large molecules that are composed of AA's. So literally when we say i am having a gram of protein that gram consists of X amount of AA's. So you would get more AA's from 40g of whey protein than you would from a serving of AA's as a supplement that has only 8 or 9g of protein in it. The difference is the concentration of different AA's in a AA supplement in comparison to the whey or food you are eating. All AA are not equal when it comes to building skeletal muscle. Having said that i would still pick whey protein over an AA supplement as both are designed for athletes, both should have full profiles and the whey protein will most likely have more grams of protein than the AA supplement thus more AA's to serve their purpose.

But would such small amounts of AAs and only a handful at max of them be able to sufficiently feed all the muscles?

So say one consumed fats and a shake before morning cardio, wouldnt that be way too much energy and again throw off the whole point of morning cardio?

Ok, you are generalizing too much with how calories get used. A person who is athletic takes a larger portion of the fats they eat and that persons liver converts those fats into HDL cholesterol, a more biologically available source thus not as likely to be stored as fat, plaque, ect in the body. A person who does not exercise and is lethargic takes those same fats and that persons liver converts them into more LDL cholesterol which less biologically available, which means it is more likely stored as fat, plaque, ect in the body. Ok with that said the amount of fat and the muscle mass an athlete possesses are very relevant to the situation. I would avoid the fat b/c at this junction it does not seem to serve any real purpose that cannot be fulfilled by eating it at some other point in the day. By doing this the calories from fat would not be added to your pre cardiovascular meal, which also is a plus. By not adding the fat calories you do not have to use those fat calories first bc they will not be in the blood, and the proteins should have done their job initiating a positive nitrogen balance or at least a nitrogen equallibrium by the time you get going 45mins to an hour after having ingested them. Now hopefully we will burn some startch in your muscles and initiate lipolysis with high intensity cardiovascular exercise for a long duration or with high weight resistance cardiovascular exercise.

How long should you wait to begin cardio after you consume your protein/AAs (and fats if you`re consuming them as well)?

DOnt consume the fats before your cardiovascular exercise. FOr whey protein i would wait 45 minutes to an hour. The amino acids should be in your blood doing their thing by then.

*(ignore absorption diff betw liquids and solids assuming its not part of the answer)[/QUOTE
 
MrChewiebitums

MrChewiebitums

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Thx.. i was hopening for one of your patented long data-rich posts


"Now hopefully we will burn some startch in your muscles and initiate lipolysis with high intensity cardiovascular exercise for a long duration or with high weight resistance cardiovascular exercise."

so just basic slow walking cardio done in the so called "fat burning zone" (60% of MHR) just like its printed on the treadmill is gobshite?

----------

"Try using both, if you had to pick one or the other i would pick the protein"


Lets say you consumed the required amount of proteins (example 40g) to put the body into a + N balance

Whey shake (complete AA profile) vs specific AAs* (those that influence the secretion of the best hormones when it comes to a fat loss diet)

Which would be better?
*Do they produce all AAs seperately (or together with another few)?

Couldnt you so to speak create your own 40g protein supplement mostly consisting of the AAs that secrete the best hormones for the job that you are doing? What would the effect of the abscence of the other AAs (lets say those that dont influence hormone secretion in anyway) be?
Or like you said mix them, say 20g from whey powder and 20g consist of those AAs that help secrete etc....
what do you think?

i`d imagine it would be expensive to purchase all those individual AAs in such amounts.

------------------------------

Brainstoming
I`d guess that there are certain hormones that arent affected by AAs otherwise if they were all able to be influenced one could say remove X grams of whey from his diet it and replace it with X grams of that an AA and this specific AA would say be able too influence ADH excretion and you could fiddle around with your water levels
 
BigBen

BigBen

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Thx.. i was hopening for one of your patented long data-rich posts


"Now hopefully we will burn some startch in your muscles and initiate lipolysis with high intensity cardiovascular exercise for a long duration or with high weight resistance cardiovascular exercise."

so just basic slow walking cardio done in the so called "fat burning zone" (60% of MHR) just like its printed on the treadmill is gobshite?
LOL, Working with people i have to admit that Ironslave posts the most effective articles on fat burning here, with out a doubt. Get on that ellyptical crank the resistance up to 20 or as high as it will go and grind with the machine. Leave the 3 hour walks to senior citizens, LOL, Im j joking. Honestly though weight resistance cardio and HIT cardio are where it is at.
----------

"Try using both, if you had to pick one or the other i would pick the protein"


Lets say you consumed the required amount of proteins (example 40g) to put the body into a + N balance

Whey shake (complete AA profile) vs specific AAs* (those that influence the secretion of the best hormones when it comes to a fat loss diet)

Which would be better?I can only give you a logic response to this questioon based on what i know, i cannot say this is the end all be all answer, honestly i am not positive. Here is what i am thinking about though.

Suppose you took the AA's and got a great response to the anabolic hormones they aid in secreting. We have to compare that anabolic activity to the anabolic activity from the calories from whey and the effects of whey on the muscle. My guess is that the calories form whey and the anabolic effect whey has would be more beneficial than the hormone secretion from the AA's alone. The Whey is going to release hormones aswell bc it is food. I am going to say that the hormone response to the whey, plus the calories in the whey, plus the larger amount of nitrogen in in the whey would be better for maintaining muscle than the AA's would be. Again the AA are a supplement to your diet.


*Do they produce all AAs seperately (or together with another few)?

I am not sure what you are asking here bro.

Couldnt you so to speak create your own 40g protein supplement mostly consisting of the AAs that secrete the best hormones for the job that you are doing?

Yes you could! A lot of companies use their "blend of Amino Acids" as a marketing tool to sell their products.

What would the effect of the abscence of the other AAs (lets say those that dont influence hormone secretion in anyway) be?


It depends on what ones were missing and how much of the essential amino acids were present. Research on specific blends of aminos would be required to answer that question.



Or like you said mix them, say 20g from whey powder and 20g consist of those AAs that help secrete etc....
what do you think?

i`d imagine it would be expensive to purchase all those individual AAs in such amounts.
Honestly you dont need to. Most of the products that have quality ingredients in them have profiles that will work just fine for the purpose of the product, a complete protein.
------------------------------

Brainstoming
I`d guess that there are certain hormones that arent affected by AAs otherwise if they were all able to be influenced one could say remove X grams of whey from his diet it and replace it with X grams of that an AA and this specific AA would say be able too influence ADH excretion and you could fiddle around with your water levels

I am sure their are, but my knowledge is dietetics health based and i am working on my sports nutrition dietetics certification currently as well, so i donot have the answer to that. I should have said muscle building hormones and not just hromones in general.

Honestly though the brain is an amazing organ. And the human body is even more fascinating. The brain and body are filled with cells that have all different receptors that when stimulated illicit different responses hormonally among others, but it is definitely a person could spend studying their entire lifetime on only one part of it. Start reading about interests you have, their is an ungodly large amount of information easily accessible to anyone that wants it out their, and it is all very cool!
 
MrChewiebitums

MrChewiebitums

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“You are asking what is the point of BCAA's? BCAA's have shown to add an anabolic and anti catabolic effect in skeletal muscle, and some amino acids when taken individually correlate with different anabolic hormones being secreted.”

So why would the presence of the other aminos effect the secretion the hormones? Doesn’t this kind of shit on the idea of mixing whey with BCAAs or EAAs because they wont (or hardly) influence hormone secretion and hence you would be worse off because say rather then having 40g consisting of all the AAs (in obviously smaller amounts due to all of them being present and having to make up 40g)[fyi this is a whey product] you would have 20g of the whey but then another 20g consisting of one or a few individual AAs and you would be substituting the presence of all the other AAs for a large amount of only a handful of certain AAs which are there for the supposed reason that they will influence hormone secretion but in reality is not going to happen because of the presence of the 20g of whey.
????

Or when you said mix them, you didn’t mean together in the same meal?


“The Whey is going to release hormones aswell bc it is food. I am going to say that the hormone response to the whey, plus the calories in the whey, plus the larger amount of nitrogen in in the whey would be better for maintaining muscle than the AA's would be. Again the AA are a supplement to your diet.”

Why do you say larger amount of Nitrogen? Wouldn’t the total nitrogen be the same since there is in both cases theres a total of 40g of protein, albeit one is made up of the whole range of AAs each one in small quantities and the other of only certain AAs albeit in much larger quantities.
Wouldnt the calories and Nitrogen be the same?
 
BigBen

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“You are asking what is the point of BCAA's? BCAA's have shown to add an anabolic and anti catabolic effect in skeletal muscle, and some amino acids when taken individually correlate with different anabolic hormones being secreted.”

So why would the presence of the other aminos effect the secretion the hormones? I dont know, that is what the studies show. That is how those amino acids interact with human physiology.Doesn’t this kind of shit on the idea of mixing whey with BCAAs or EAAsI honestly thought it was silly to add amino acids to a product that already had a full amino acid profile, unless an amino acid is needed in a higher amount for a physiological task than another, then it would make sense to add them. because they wont (or hardly) influence hormone secretion and hence you would be worse off because say rather then having 40g consisting of all the AAsI dont know if a person would be worse off, really. (in obviously smaller amounts due to all of them being present and having to make up 40g)[fyi this is a whey product] you would have 20g of the whey but then another 20g consisting of one or a few individual AAs and you would be substituting the presence of all the other AAs for a large amount of only a handful of certain AAs which are there for the supposed reason that they will influence hormone secretion but in reality is not going to happen because of the presence of the 20g of whey.The aminos arent useless if added to whey, but i cannot say that they will have the same effect bc the studies were done with amino acids only, not amino acids added to an already full amino acid profile. The results could be better, but studies are needed to varify that.
????

Or when you said mix them, you didn’t mean together in the same meal?
can you quote where i said that so i can see the context of my stament, i honestly dont remember what i was discussing that in referance to.

“The Whey is going to release hormones aswell bc it is food. I am going to say that the hormone response to the whey, plus the calories in the whey, plus the larger amount of nitrogen in in the whey would be better for maintaining muscle than the AA's would be. Again the AA are a supplement to your diet.”

Why do you say larger amount of Nitrogen? Wouldn’t the total nitrogen be the same since there is in both cases theres a total of 40g of protein, albeit one is made up of the whole range of AAs each one in small quantities and the other of only certain AAs albeit in much larger quantities.
Wouldnt the calories and Nitrogen be the same?

I said larger amount of nitrogen bc i thought you were saying should i take a few grams of aminos or an entire serving of whey. I misunderstrood what you were asking. Yes if the total grams f protein are the same then the calories shoud be the same also.But you have to realize that your body is not soley making muscle with the proteins you eat, so to eat only those aminos that are beneficial to muscle growth might not be beneficial overall. You need at least the 8 essential aminos.
 
MrChewiebitums

MrChewiebitums

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Do you think it would be a good idea to put creatine (how much?) with the morning protein shake?

*still cutting*
 
MrChewiebitums

MrChewiebitums

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whats your opinion on morning cardio on an empty stomach?
or what about consuming BCAAs or AAs before the morning cardio? (plus how long do you think one should wait if he consumes BCAAs or AAs)

I want to switch to this method of empty stomach morning cardio as i feel i respond better to it
 

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