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Some questions about 5/3/1

Storm

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There's a fair amount of info about this program already posted (and i've read it) but there are some people here on mecca who have been doing this for a while i thought i might ask some questions directly to you and use your experience (i'm pointing at you, freako :p ).

I mostly want to know your experiences/opinions/preferences about assistance work regarding wich exercises work best, when and how much volume/intensity of those you'd recommend.

Also, if you were to throw in some cardio when would you do that?

And, for those of us in civilized countries using metric system how much load increments are you using per cycle, in kilograms?

Thanks in advance, any other tip/suggestion you might add will be highly appreciated too.

Cheers.
 
tim290280

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I've found the program decent. Although I have switched in some heavier loads for some assistance work as I was begining to lack top end on squats and bench.

But assistance work is going to be entirely individual. You should have a decent gauge on what you suck at and thus what needs to be done to fix that. I think the higher rep work is a must, but I'd caution against being solely higher rep (need some mid rep stuff as well). If anything I haven't hit enough high rep and too much mid rep accessories.

Cardio is simple, just do it.

As for progression, I just follow the guidelines of 5kg lower body, 2.5kg upper body for main lifts. For accessories I just aim to keep it in line with what I'm progressing towards. E.g. if I'm benching 3x140kg at 90kg BW then I should be doing 3x50kg dips or 12x20kg.
 
Storm

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I've found the program decent. Although I have switched in some heavier loads for some assistance work as I was begining to lack top end on squats and bench.

But assistance work is going to be entirely individual. You should have a decent gauge on what you suck at and thus what needs to be done to fix that.

I suck on so many things i wouldn't know where to start lol. Nah, i know what you mean.

timtim said:
I think the higher rep work is a must, but I'd caution against being solely higher rep (need some mid rep stuff as well). If anything I haven't hit enough high rep and too much mid rep accessories.

Cardio is simple, just do it.

As for progression, I just follow the guidelines of 5kg lower body, 2.5kg upper body for main lifts. For accessories I just aim to keep it in line with what I'm progressing towards. E.g. if I'm benching 3x140kg at 90kg BW then I should be doing 3x50kg dips or 12x20kg.

Thanks a lot tim, what about volume on assistance work? I mean total by session, like 12 sets of 8-12, or more, or less or whatever. Just to get the idea and work it from there. I don't want to get mad with those and diminish the results of the program but in the other hand if there's too few of those my partner will say no-no to the whole 5/3/1 thing.
 
Cork

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Like Timbo said, the assistance work can be done anyway you want. I focus my assitance work on hypertrophy ranges, but some cycles I will do sets of 20 reps each.

If you aren't sure where to start, just follow one of the templates in the book. After a cycle or 2 you will definitely have a good idea of what you want to change. I started out with Tate's template of 3 exercises and 5 sets 15-20 reps. I have since modified it to do less reps with heavier weight.

What are your goals with 531? Strength? Hypertrophy? Both? That should help you decide how you want to do your assistance work. If you want strength, then focus solely on the assistance work that will improve your main 4 lifts.
 
tim290280

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^^ I've just been going off what the manual says. He was saying 70 reps or there abouts.
 
Cork

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^^ I've just been going off what the manual says. He was saying 70 reps or there abouts.

I accidentally hit the post button before I said everything I wanted to say :p
 
Storm

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Thanks Cork and tim again.

As for my goals, I'm looking towards strength mainly as size comes after that sooner or later and it's not my main worry. Not that i'm planning on becoming a powerlifter but moving "big" weights is fun after all isn't it? and i'm by no means a bodybuilder either haha.I'm more of a recreational lifter, but one that preffers to train wisely, i suppose.
Other reason to try this is that i've being doing variations of the same program for a while now and i'm getting tired of that. I'll talk about this with my training partner today and see what happens!

btw cork i've ment to tell you this like forever, if that's you on your avatar props to you!
 
Cork

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Haha, I need to change my avi. It's not me, it;s Jim Cordova, one of the best natural pros right now.
 
tim290280

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As for my goals, I'm looking towards strength mainly as size comes after that sooner or later and it's not my main worry. Not that i'm planning on becoming a powerlifter but moving "big" weights is fun after all isn't it? and i'm by no means a bodybuilder either haha.I'm more of a recreational lifter, but one that preffers to train wisely, i suppose.

Strength enthusiast :xyxthumbs:
 
Storm

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@cork well, props to Mr. Cordova then ;)

I've introduced my partner to 5/3/1 and he'd like to give it a try too, so I'll try putting together a good plan and start it next monday.

I read somewhere that 4RM was a good aproximation to the 90%1RM that this program asks you about any input on that?
I haven't really maxed any lift in a long time so in any case i'll have to figure that out from my 5RM (which i know quite well).

For now i'll be doing the 4 main exercises the program dictates (big three plus standing military press), has anyone swapped MP with something else?
 

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I love standing MP. Nothing makes me feel stronger than putting up heavy weight straight overhead.
 
El Freako

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Sorry I'm late to reply to this thread but it looks like Tim has taken care of it. I'll just say what's worked for me.

Boring-But-Big or the Triumvirate are my favourite assistance templates. Big movements are best for big movements.

Squats: nothing beats more squats. I usually do 5x10 but sometimes used a heavier 5x5. Also try out GHRs.
Bench and MP: more benching (heavy DBs are my favourite but I've also done 5x8-10 of flat bench from time to time, experience under the bar is essential) and dips. Pullups and Heavy DB rows for back.
Deadlifts: heavy deadlifts. I'm going to be adjusting my template to 3/5/1 and using week 2 as a ME day where I hit my prescribed reps then work for a heavy single. Also, GMs and Kroc rows for grip.
 
Storm

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Thanks el freako.
Kroc rows? i'll have to google that.

Edit: just saw a video and it looks like a DB row? The bad news is: heaviest DB in my gym is 35Kg.

Edit 2: before someone says "go somewhere else" biggest DB in other gyms in my area= 30Kg.
 
El Freako

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Kroc rows are heavy db rows done for one set of 20-40 reps. You should build up to the major set with some lighter sets of 10. I usually do a second or third set for shits and giggles.
 
Storm

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Just a quick update. I've been sick this weekend (damn a/c) and today i'm so-so but anyway I showed in the gym to get started with this new 5/3/1 thing.

I'm doing as follows:
Monday:
Squats 5/3/1
Leg Press, Leg curl, calves, weighted abs

Tuesday:
Military Press 5/3/1
flat/incline Bench, pullups, tris, cardio

Wed: off, maybe light cardio, maybe not

Thu:
Deadlift 5/3/1
GM or lumbar, squats, calves, weighted abs

Fri:
Bench press 5/3/1
Rows, shoulder press, bis, cardio

How do you guys think it looks? For aux. exercises i'll be doing 2-3 sets of 10-15 reps each and cardio will be interval/HIIT/tempo kind of thing. I just need to commit to that hehe. Weight sessions should be shorter than what i've been doing so i'll have "spare time" for cardio...hopefully. cardio sucks.

Anyway, i've done squats today with the prescribed weights (rounded up by a kilo some of them, i don't have .5 plates) and i've managed to do 7 good reps on the last set.

Cheers.
 
Cork

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I would add dips to bench press day and chins to MP day. I'm not sure about squatting as an assistance exercise on deadlift day.... do you have the equipment to do GHRs?

Also, do you use excel? I have a spreadsheet that maps out each cycle. All you do is put in your maxes and the spreadsheet will autopopulate the calculations (90% of your 1RM rounded up to the nearest 5lbs). I can try and fix the rounding calculation so it works with kilos. PM me your e-mail if you're interested and I can try and do it tonight.
 
El Freako

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I'll agree with Cork, squats are going to be a bit rough after deadlifts and GMs. I'd do them instead of leg presses. And where are the dips?

I have an excel sheet that works with kgs...
 

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Cork

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I'll agree with Cork, squats are going to be a bit rough after deadlifts and GMs. I'd do them instead of leg presses. And where are the dips?

I have an excel sheet that works with kgs...

:thumbsup2:
 
Pickle

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yeah i echo what those guys said, i did squats last night after cleans and deads 5/3/1 even tho i only went light(about 60% of one rep max) i nearly passed out and have muscle soreness already, which i dont usually get. Ill persist with it for 4 weeks but just a word of caution if u do it it sux.
 
Storm

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hmmm i throwed those extra squats because i'm used to squat twice a day and I like using those "light" sets to improve form and depth. On the other hand I've never done those the same day with DLs... i might give it a try and change it if it's too hard. Thanks for your advise. What would you do instead of them? (no fancy equipment)

Reason for not including dips is my training partner isn't able to do them for many reps, the guy is quite tall and lacks the strength. Or he did the last time we checked, i'll look into that for sure.

As for chins on MP day, i've got pullups already... should i be doing both?

Thanks to everyone, and thanks for those excels freako.

Cheers
 

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