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  1. #1
    Elvira turns me on Natzo's Avatar
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    Lightbulb PW BCAAS vs Whey

    I was reading this and I want to know your guys thoughts.

    It makes sense to me after reading more articles about the subject.

    from http://www.simplyshredded.com/page/2?s=layne+norton+faq were you can find all the FAQ's.

    extract from faq 3 - http://www.simplyshredded.com/discus...-of-bcaas.html

    Layne Norton, Natural Bodybuilder answers some of your most frequently asked questions on the major roles of BCAA’s

    On Why the preference of BCAA over Whey in PWO shakes

    Was curious, while listening to MDR and your conversations (which were awesome by the way, great for us “Natties” to get some exposure) you mentioned you use 15-20 gms of BCAA post workout. I know you follow this up with a whole meal about an hour later, but why do you feel this is more beneficial than say getting a whey protein that is a complete protein that has a good BCAA profile post workout? Do the BCAA’s lead to greater/faster protein synthesis than whey?


    I think you are saying that whey may be better since it has all the aminos. The BCAAs in particular leucine are the amino acids responsible for stimulating protein synthesis… not the others. The others are needed as substrates but if you are eating like a typical bodybuilder (every 2-3 hours) then you will have AMPLE levels of all the other amino acids and BCAAs alone will be sufficient. And yes the reason I like free form bcaas is because they spike plasma BCAA levels to a much greater extent than whey.


    Layne's PW shake

    10-15 gr Bcaas (xtend dose)
    20-30 gr of dextrose
    20-30 gr of oats
    beta alanine
    5 gr of creatine

    Similar Bodybuilding Threads:

    Last edited by Natzo; 08-23-2010 at 01:53 PM.
    PW BCAAS vs Whey

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  2. #2
    Mecca V.I.P. tim290280's Avatar
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    Layne's been pushing this barrow for ages. There aren't too many other researchers that are as keen on them as he is (from what I've read).

    I posted a J St & Cond round-table discussion about BCAAs with Layne and 3-4 other guys in the articles section. The other guys were mixed to anti about BCAA as opposed to whey.

    I'm not saying I disagree with him, as I haven't read his more recent research. But there has been a lot of research on BCAAs and the only one that really seems to have the goods is leucine.


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  3. #3
    Elvira turns me on Natzo's Avatar
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    ^^

    Tim I can manage to get you the crux of his phd work.

    let's see if I can find it.


    PW BCAAS vs Whey

    Natzo's LOG - Check my workouts!ASC 09 Top 5 pick Champion'10 MM fantasy Football league Champion


  4. #4
    Elvira turns me on Natzo's Avatar
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    Check this part from FAQ n.2

    On Protein requirements/ PEPTIDE-bound amino acids vs free form amino acids

    Layne but what do you think of having a higher protein intake for a macronutrient balance? If you need over 600 carbs to gain something (like me; 21 x bw maintenance) , 1x bw protein will leave me at like 25 grams of protein per meal. If im eating 80 Carbs of pasta for example for a PPWO meal, there will be about 13 Protein grams in the pasta, leaving about the same amount of chicken protein to be eaten (very little chicken and would seem like an unbalanced meal). I know you deal with it by eating less meals with more protein each meal but i can’t imagine eating so many carbs in one sitting, the 7 meals i eat now are big enough…


    yea then you can go higher if you want to my point has always been more protein probably isn’t bad but it certainly isn’t ‘needed’ as so many ‘gurus’ preach

    this is from an article i wrote

    Despite the numerous positive benefits to BCAA supplementation, there are many skeptics who suggest that BCAAs are overpriced and that one can just increase their consumption of whey protein which is rich in BCAAs. Unfortunately this is not the case. The BCAAs in whey are peptide bound to other amino acids and must be liberated through digestion & absorbed into the bloodstream to exert their effects. Even though whey protein is relatively fast digesting, it still takes several hours for all the amino acids to be liberated & absorbed into the bloodstream. BCAAs in supplement form however, are free form BCAAs and require no digestion and are therefore rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream, spiking blood amino acids to a much greater extent than peptide bound amino acids. Even a few grams of BCAAs will spike plasma levels of BCAAs to a much greater extent than a 30g dose of whey protein, impacting protein synthesis and protein degradation to a much greater degree. The reason a supplement has such a powerful effect on blood levels of BCAAs is that unlike other amino acids, BCAAs are not metabolized to a significant extent by the small intestine or the liver, therefore an oral supplement is more like a BCAA injection since it reaches the bloodstream so rapidly.



    PW BCAAS vs Whey

    Natzo's LOG - Check my workouts!ASC 09 Top 5 pick Champion'10 MM fantasy Football league Champion


  5. #5
    Mecca V.I.P. tim290280's Avatar
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    Hmmm. Would like to see that data. Sounds really interesting.


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  6. #6
    Elvira turns me on Natzo's Avatar
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    I have a pdf from Layne that covers his research at the phd elvel.

    - layne E. Norton , Optimal protein intake to maximize muscle protein synthesis.

    if you're interested in reading it send a pm with your email.


    @Tim : I sent it to the email provided by your facebook page. if you didn't get hit me pm.


    PW BCAAS vs Whey

    Natzo's LOG - Check my workouts!ASC 09 Top 5 pick Champion'10 MM fantasy Football league Champion


  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by tim290280 View Post
    Layne's been pushing this barrow for ages. There aren't too many other researchers that are as keen on them as he is (from what I've read).

    I posted a J St & Cond round-table discussion about BCAAs with Layne and 3-4 other guys in the articles section. The other guys were mixed to anti about BCAA as opposed to whey.

    I'm not saying I disagree with him, as I haven't read his more recent research. But there has been a lot of research on BCAAs and the only one that really seems to have the goods is leucine.

    I am of the same opinion as Tim, and I was turned off by Layne a bit recently also. I read a study that Layne butchered. The study was posted in his article section in MD magazine. The author made over extensions of evidence and proceeded to give dietary recommendations that were not supported by the conclusions of that study.

    But after having read some of what Natzo posted, and getting a little better understanding of Laynes views/opinions evidence based or otherwise, I am not sure if Layne actually wrote the article that I a referring too.

    I do disagree with the statement, "more protein might not be bad". Numerous studies exist that show the negative effects over consumption of dietary protein. The immediate effects of over consumption of protein are seen in the activity of liver enzymes kidney function, increasing the chance of constipation, dehydration, and increasing the acidity in the body which is also correlated with disease process. Also, the over consumption of protein seems to be an irrational food choice when one thinks about human biochemistry and physiology, more specifically that the likelihood of the body requiring more amino acids to synthesize proteins than the body needs glycogen to synthesize ATP seems unlikely in theory.


     


  8. #8
    Elvira turns me on Natzo's Avatar
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    Ben have you read the article that I mentioned the post above.. the one in a pdf that i have?


    PW BCAAS vs Whey

    Natzo's LOG - Check my workouts!ASC 09 Top 5 pick Champion'10 MM fantasy Football league Champion


  9. #9
    Mecca V.I.P. tim290280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natzo View Post
    @Tim : I sent it to the email provided by your facebook page. if you didn't get hit me pm.
    Thanks Natzo.

    Now I know who signed me up for all that tranny porn.


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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Natzo View Post
    Ben have you read the article that I mentioned the post above.. the one in a pdf that i have?
    I have not read that article yet, no.


     


  11. #11
    Mecca V.I.P. tim290280's Avatar
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    The publication is pretty lowly ranked.
    Quote Quote
    Agro FOOD industry hi-tech - a link between the Academic and the Industrial areas - is one of the few trade journals with an impact factor.
    The 2009 impact factor for Agro FOOD industry hi-tech is 0.191, according to the Thomson Reuters Journal Citation Reports.
    About equivilent to not writing anything.

    Although I notice some of the references are for stuff published in FASEB and J Nutrition which seems better.


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  12. #12
    Mecca V.I.P. _ROBERTiNHO_'s Avatar
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    Natzo, could you send the article to me?


    Long, long wait...


  13. #13
    Elvira turns me on Natzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _ROBERTiNHO_ View Post
    Natzo, could you send the article to me?
    sure, pm the email you want me to send it.


    PW BCAAS vs Whey

    Natzo's LOG - Check my workouts!ASC 09 Top 5 pick Champion'10 MM fantasy Football league Champion




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