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Thread: Global Warming

  1. #1
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation lifterdead's Avatar
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    Global Warming

    Last night I was out drinking with some fellows in my grad program. Somehow the topic drifted to global warming. I proceeded to make some comments on the dubious nature of Al Gore's film, and also mentioned that there isn't a universal consesus in the scientific community on exactly how our climate is changing. (In fact, most solar scientists believe we're headed into another period of significant cooling.)

    Anyways, I was verbally crucifed for my views.


    Thoughts?

    I always find it amazing how people are willing to make such big steps off such little information; their "carbon credits," hybrid cars, etc. By no means do I consider myself an expert, but I read peer-reviewed journals on occasion and know enough to know that climate change ain't all Al Gore makes it to be.


    Well, were do Mecca heads stand on this issue?









    I'd like to open this one up for debate.

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    [FONT="Impact"] slept with faith and found a corpse in my arms on awakening; I drank and danced all night with doubt and found her a virgin in the morning.[/FONT]



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  2. #2
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation pegasus's Avatar
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    http://www.musclemecca.com/showthrea...ndle-7385.html

    I think it was really good documentary




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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Hypocrisy86's Avatar
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    In 1979 they said we were going through another ice age
    and this shit comes up, just so he can get attention and make more money...
    what a F.A.G.
    also. What i heard is its getting cooler on Arctic area could be wrong
    i just overhead that part while listening to WOAI 1200 on the way to the gym once...




  4. #4
    i believe its true... but to what extent im not really sure.


    She really looks like someone set her face on fire and put it out with a bike chain.


  5. #5
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Hypocrisy86's Avatar
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    Its not global warming, in Antartica a group of scientists discovered it has something to do
    with the planets, or something. i cant recall, but over time it will fade (sooner than you think)




  6. #6
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Ironslave's Avatar
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    Ive argued with the global warming idiots countless times, mostly playing devil's advocate and pointing out the fact that they don't know nearly as much (or anything) that most of them think they know.

    I think the science probably leans toward it is at least partially happening, but do we know why? Is it because of humans? Animals? The sun? There are studies confirming and refuting all of these, and I'm not an earth science major so I don't know enough to read through it and conclude which side is right. It could all just be a natural shift that happens as a result of whatever the hell has happened over the billions of years earth has existed.

    To illustrate this point, this is by far the BEST example I could ever give. First, lets look at source A, published in the Journal of Science, which is of the side that "Global warming exists".

    http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten.../306/5702/1686

    But, then another person, looked at the exact same data she did, and this person refutes her findings.

    http://www.skepticalscience.com/news.php?n=6

    The thing about it that pisses me off is the liberal hippies who care more about saving a tree than human life. They almost always think saving the planet is more important than helping those in poverty, or putting a stop to an unjust war. Then they just advocate stupid shit such as more nanny state government regulations, taxes, and so on.

    I personally think that the issue is simple really, people need to have the common sense to respect the property of others by not polluting, littering, or using energy where it is unnecessary. Personally, I couldn't give two shits about climate change, but I don't want to waste my own money driving around a big SUV everywhere. If I can get by riding my bike, carpooling, going for a run and so on, I'm going to do it for the exercise and to save money.

    The market through the huge price of gas has done more towards reducing emissions than any government law ever could, and it has very little to do with people caring about the environment.




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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation lifterdead's Avatar
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    The market through the huge price of gas has done more towards reducing emissions than any government law ever could, and it has very little to do with people caring about the environment.
    Isn't it great? I keep saying higher gases prices are the best thing that could happen to America.


    From what I understand, there seems to be a cadre of solar scientists who believe much of the fluctuation in temps is related to sunspots, or the lack of them. There is a HUGE amount of research on this, I'll post some links to journals later. The gist of their research seems to indicate that the sun goes through cycles that correspond with ice ages. The has been a distinct lack of sunspots just recently, interestingly coinciding with last year's DROP in global temps. I seem to remember reading somewhere that one scientist is predicting a strong cooling cycle to begin in the new decade.




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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation German_Joe's Avatar
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    the green effect is just a fad for people to buy "new" "green" everything. Basically a marketing ploy..... oh so ands so doesnt have an electric lawn mower..... hes a terrorist




  9. #9
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Ironslave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifterdead View Post
    Isn't it great? I keep saying higher gases prices are the best thing that could happen to America.
    I know you mentioned it before, and discussed local markets and such, but I don't agree, high cost of energy will certainly affect everyone in a variety of ways. Low cost of goods enables people to keep more of their wealth and put it towards a variety of things, housing, travel, their kids education, anything. I still think that higher prices of oil will cause more harm to the local merchant, he needs to get the oil too, and as such, he will have to increase his prices to compensate for his cost.




  10. #10
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Ironslave's Avatar
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    Also thought I'd mention this, for the record:

    I'm loving the possibility of electric/hybrid cars coming out, in large part that I think a ton of environmental hippies will just jump right into using them. If this lowers the demand for oil, prices will drop, and I pay less at the pump should I stick with a hydrocarbon fuel. If say 25% of people end up driving an electric car, this would surely make people pay less.




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    I know you mentioned it before, and discussed local markets and such, but I don't agree, high cost of energy will certainly affect everyone in a variety of ways. Low cost of goods enables people to keep more of their wealth and put it towards a variety of things, housing, travel, their kids education, anything. I still think that higher prices of oil will cause more harm to the local merchant, he needs to get the oil too, and as such, he will have to increase his prices to compensate for his cost.
    I have no doubt that high oil prices will be hard on people at all economic levels, but I fail to see how it will hurt local business in the long term. High oil prices will force people to change the way they do business. For example, you mention "low cost" goods. Walmart, for example, sells massive amounts of cheap products. These goods, however, are produced at low cost thousands of miles away in a different country. Low cost of transportation has made this viable. Pretty soon, the cost of shipping these kinds of goods across the globe to fill big box stores in the US will no longer become cost effective. The result? More goods will be produced locally, and their will be a higher demand for labor.


    When I refer to local merchants, I refer to those who produce goods locally. Of course high prices of energy will affect them, but I don't believe they'll be crippled. Already there has been an aggressive increase farmer's markets in small cities.



    Also, I've been drinking alot tonight, so I ask for forgiveness in advance if I'm incoherent.

    :linedrunk:




  12. #12
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation
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    yes global warming is a problem
    did a lot of research about it for a paper a few months ago, the ice age cycles have a lot to do with the variations of carbon dioxide in the air, but its not all on humans.




  13. #13
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Ironslave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifterdead View Post
    I have no doubt that high oil prices will be hard on people at all economic levels, but I fail to see how it will hurt local business in the long term. High oil prices will force people to change the way they do business. For example, you mention "low cost" goods. Walmart, for example, sells massive amounts of cheap products. These goods, however, are produced at low cost thousands of miles away in a different country. Low cost of transportation has made this viable. Pretty soon, the cost of shipping these kinds of goods across the globe to fill big box stores in the US will no longer become cost effective. The result? More goods will be produced locally, and their will be a higher demand for labor.
    Good explanation on the shipping stuff, there are costs/benefits for sure.




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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation tim290280's Avatar
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    I think where people get confused about global warming and the science is where things have become politicised. Most of the hard evidence supports global warming, but what has been done with this evidence is to turn it into models that are mutated into doom and gloom scenarios.

    I just read a paper from a former modeller with the Australian Greenhouse Office, he is pretty condemnatory of the politics involved in climate change science. The actual science is pretty daunting but is not at a systems level so it is hard to draw the conclusions that are being drawn. This is also especially true of the sceptics who will use annomolis data to push their point (one that is oft quoted is the increaes in pack ice in a certain area of the ocean, when there is on average less).

    But the point that is being missed is this: current practices of consumption of unrenewable resources is unsustainable. With the current explosions in population and demands out of China and India we will see a tipping point in oil in the next 5-12 years. Unless we do opt for more efficiency of resource use, improvement of alternate technologies, and world wide improvement of pollution (this is not just CO2 emmissions but also acid rain, smog, land clearing, etc) we will have major environmental problems on our hands within this century. We cannot sustain the predicted 9 billion people on our current resource usage practices.

    The best quote I've heard on the topic was from a visiting professor recently; "the stone age did not end for a lack of stone, the oil age will not end for a lack of oil."

    For the record as an Ag Scientist I/we have had to be across the issue of climate change as we are seen as the only currently viable source of sequestration. I am eternally frustrated with this supposed debate that the media fuels; remember there were scientists who were critical of the earth being a sphere theory.


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  15. #15
    Member bodybuilding reputation WaveRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironslave View Post
    Ive argued with the global warming idiots countless times, mostly playing devil's advocate and pointing out the fact that they don't know nearly as much (or anything) that most of them think they know.

    I think the science probably leans toward it is at least partially happening, but do we know why? Is it because of humans? Animals? The sun? There are studies confirming and refuting all of these, and I'm not an earth science major so I don't know enough to read through it and conclude which side is right. It could all just be a natural shift that happens as a result of whatever the hell has happened over the billions of years earth has existed.

    To illustrate this point, this is by far the BEST example I could ever give. First, lets look at source A, published in the Journal of Science, which is of the side that "Global warming exists".

    http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten.../306/5702/1686

    But, then another person, looked at the exact same data she did, and this person refutes her findings.

    http://www.skepticalscience.com/news.php?n=6

    The thing about it that pisses me off is the liberal hippies who care more about saving a tree than human life.
    Say that to the people of Island nations

    I personally think that the issue is simple really, people need to have the common sense to respect the property of others by not polluting, littering, or using energy where it is unnecessary. What these so called hippies have pushed to the media frontPersonally, I couldn't give two shits about climate change, but I don't want to waste my own money driving around a big SUV everywhere. If I can get by riding my bike, carpooling, going for a run and so on, I'm going to do it for the exercise and to save money. What these so called hippies have been arguing

    The market through the huge price of gas has done more towards reducing emissions than any government law ever could, and it has very little to do with people caring about the environment. Not true, Oil and Gas companies have to meet emission rates
    You can't argue that global warming is non-existent when you practically agree that we are damaging the enviroment. Your actions certainly speak louder than what you have typed. (other wise u would not actively reduce carbon emissions)

    Sadly we see a lot of enviromental problems due to increases in population globally. But anyone who thinks global warming does not exist needs to back it up with real data then some loony who thinks that it may be possible that it doesn't exists and throws together a last minute article


    :imcoolurnot:Lift weights, Catch waves and Chase skirt:coolguy:


  16. #16
    Al Gore is my homie




  17. #17
    Saw this awhile back here is a clip








  18. #18
    Member bodybuilding reputation WaveRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim290280 View Post
    I think where people get confused about global warming and the science is where things have become politicised. Most of the hard evidence supports global warming, but what has been done with this evidence is to turn it into models that are mutated into doom and gloom scenarios.

    I just read a paper from a former modeller with the Australian Greenhouse Office, he is pretty condemnatory of the politics involved in climate change science. The actual science is pretty daunting but is not at a systems level so it is hard to draw the conclusions that are being drawn. This is also especially true of the sceptics who will use annomolis data to push their point (one that is oft quoted is the increaes in pack ice in a certain area of the ocean, when there is on average less).

    But the point that is being missed is this: current practices of consumption of unrenewable resources is unsustainable. With the current explosions in population and demands out of China and India we will see a tipping point in oil in the next 5-12 years. Unless we do opt for more efficiency of resource use, improvement of alternate technologies, and world wide improvement of pollution (this is not just CO2 emmissions but also acid rain, smog, land clearing, etc) we will have major environmental problems on our hands within this century. We cannot sustain the predicted 9 billion people on our current resource usage practices.

    The best quote I've heard on the topic was from a visiting professor recently; "the stone age did not end for a lack of stone, the oil age will not end for a lack of oil."

    For the record as an Ag Scientist I/we have had to be across the issue of climate change as we are seen as the only currently viable source of sequestration. I am eternally frustrated with this supposed debate that the media fuels; remember there were scientists who were critical of the earth being a sphere theory.
    This is why Australia should be minning uranium and investing into nuclear energy. Its cleaner than coal, oil and gas. Plus with the current market looking to the future where there is battery powered cars.

    Well Rudd is just an idiot. I couldn't believe that he attacked woodside for reducing emissions and then on the other hand allows coal to get away with emitting more. They better becareful otherwise they will screw up future contracts in our region.






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