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  1. #55
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Ironslave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duality View Post
    there's a difference in reproducing 2 children to replace yourself and your spouse, and having 6 children because you think the more children you put into this world the better.
    Or maybe the family wants 6 children... because they just do? Either way, it's a violation of liberty to try and make laws or something telling people they can't reproduce.





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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Duality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironslave View Post
    Or maybe the family wants 6 children... because they just do? Either way, it's a violation of liberty to try and make laws or something telling people they can't reproduce.

    this is the same exact arguement we had on the thread where japan put financial incentive for people to be in better shape. violation of liberty? sure, if you want to be black and white about it. same goes here, only this could become quite a problem if it gets out of hand. like i said before, when do you think our population here will hit 350 million? 400? 500? i say if you want to have your cake and eat it too and think your entitled to have 6 kids, fine, but you will be taxed accordingly. we can't have families of 2 spouses pumping out 6 kids. it's not right and it's selfish.




  3. #57
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Bulkboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duality View Post
    this is the same exact arguement we had on the thread where japan put financial incentive for people to be in better shape. violation of liberty? sure, if you want to be black and white about it. same goes here, only this could become quite a problem if it gets out of hand. like i said before, when do you think our population here will hit 350 million? 400? 500? i say if you want to have your cake and eat it too and think your entitled to have 6 kids, fine, but you will be taxed accordingly. we can't have families of 2 spouses pumping out 6 kids. it's not right and it's selfish.
    you got it right bro

    im glad to see that there are others on this board that thinks in abit broader perspective than the principle of personal liberty. when something affects everyone else, then its no longer just a question of liberty to do what u want. society gotta step in sometimes, and when we know that in other parts of the world people are dying from starvation, its not acceptable to encourage people over here to have a shitload of kids. especially when it only leads to more of an excessive strain on the natural resources we are tapping this earth from.


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  4. #58
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Ironslave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duality View Post
    this is the same exact arguement we had on the thread where japan put financial incentive for people to be in better shape. violation of liberty? sure, if you want to be black and white about it. same goes here, only this could become quite a problem if it gets out of hand. like i said before, when do you think our population here will hit 350 million? 400? 500? i say if you want to have your cake and eat it too and think your entitled to have 6 kids, fine, but you will be taxed accordingly. we can't have families of 2 spouses pumping out 6 kids. it's not right and it's selfish.
    Where do you draw the line though? Do we limit the amount of food that a person can eat? The amount of money they can make in their jobs? Why should people be punished, or not allowed, if they want to have many children? Maybe they love the whole process of raising them, isn't that their right?

    m glad to see that there are others on this board that thinks in abit broader perspective than the principle of personal liberty. when something affects everyone else, then its no longer just a question of liberty to do what u want. society gotta step in sometimes, when we know that in other parts of the world people are dying from starvation, its not acceptable to encourage people over here to have a shitload of kids. especially when it only leads to more of an excessive strain on the natural resources we are tapping this earth from.
    And who decides this? How many of the world's problems can be attributed by the fact that governments have gotten large and out of control? Tons. Seriously, Bulkboy and Duality, if you guys actually think that population is getting out of control, go get a vasectomy. I don't mean this in a mean, or disrespectful way, I just mean that if you truly think this is a problem, then actually make an individual choice to do something about it. Take the initiative, lead, and do something, instead of whining and hoping your government does, and in turn they make decisions that affect the lives and choices of others but not your own.

    It's always funny that people are all for imposing certain laws against others, but not when it applies to themselves. Do you guys fit this category?




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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Duality's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ironslave
    Where do you draw the line though? Do we limit the amount of food that a person can eat? The amount of money they can make in their jobs? Why should people be punished, or not allowed, if they want to have many children? Maybe they love the whole process of raising them, isn't that their right?

    the proverbial "line" you speak of is the hard part. where do you draw it? bulkboy said it perfectly "when that person's personal liberty starts infringing on the rights/lives of others" world population WILL be a problem in the next 50 years. something needs to be done about it.


    Seriously, Bulkboy and Duality, if you guys actually think that population is getting out of control, go get a vasectomy. I don't mean this in a mean, or disrespectful way, I just mean that if you truly think this is a problem, then actually make an individual choice to do something about it. Take the initiative, lead, and do something, instead of whining and hoping your government does, and in turn they make decisions that affect the lives and choices of others but not your own.
    you again miss my point and use an extereme example to poorly illustrate your point. NEVER did i say people could and should not reproduce. what i said was, people should reproduce to replace themselves and their spouse....that equals 2 children. the families that don't believe in birth control or think it's the more the merrier and have 5 kids are not only greedy but they are selfish. what would happen if everyone did that? telling us to get vasectomies is not only ridiculous but it completely misses our points.

    and you can't make it illegal to have more than 2 children i understand that, but you can sure as heck provide some tax incentives to do so. if i'm not mistaken china is currently doing this because they let a little problem turn into a big one.

    It's always funny that people are all for imposing certain laws against others, but not when it applies to themselves. Do you guys fit this category?
    i fully intend on having only 2 children. so yes i do.




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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Ironslave's Avatar
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    Oh give me a break. Once again, maybe they want 4-5 children? Should we set a limit "sorry, you can only have 2 kids". How about if the government feels that overpopulation is a major problem, and it decides that nobody is allowed to have children for the next x amount of years?

    If you think over population is such a problem, do something YOURSELF, and don't reproduce. Seriously, take the initiative man, be a leader and do it. Imagine, if you and everyone else who feels that overpopulation is a problem all made a vow, and they all decided to do something, get vasectomies, or tubes litigated, then chances are you'd solve the problem for everyone.

    I know the point you're trying to make, you think that overpopulation is a problem, and fair enough, you can certainly think that. But my point is, think about what must be done in order to achieve this. So, instead of whining, and hoping that government will solve problems by telling other people what they can or cannot do, do it yourself.

    It's always the exact same things, people want their government to do all these things and tell all these people how to live, so long as it doesn't affect themselves.




  7. #61
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Duality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironslave View Post
    Oh give me a break. Once again, maybe they want 4-5 children? Should we set a limit "sorry, you can only have 2 kids". How about if the government feels that overpopulation is a major problem, and it decides that nobody is allowed to have children for the next x amount of years?

    If you think over population is such a problem, do something YOURSELF, and don't reproduce. Seriously, take the initiative man, be a leader and do it. Imagine, if you and everyone else who feels that overpopulation is a problem all made a vow, and they all decided to do something, get vasectomies, or tubes litigated, then chances are you'd solve the problem for everyone.

    I know the point you're trying to make, you think that overpopulation is a problem, and fair enough, you can certainly think that. But my point is, think about what must be done in order to achieve this. So, instead of whining, and hoping that government will solve problems by telling other people what they can or cannot do, do it yourself.

    It's always the exact same things, people want their government to do all these things and tell all these people how to live, so long as it doesn't affect themselves.

    Duality says: overpopulation is a looming problem and we should take steps to address it. a good way would be to provide financial incentive for parents to only have 2 children.

    Ironslave hears: Duality thinks we should implement laws prohibiting people from reproducing. my response to him is get a vasectomy and practice what you preach. people should never for any reason be denied liberties even if those liberties begin to infringe on others.


    why do you think my stance on providing financial incentive for parents to have 2 kids needs to be substantiated by me having a vasectomy? excuse me but have i anywhere said that people should cease reproduction? said we should get laws inacted to make more than 2 children illegal? no and no. i plan on having kids, 2 kids. one to replace myself and my spouse. this does not contribute to the population problem whatsoever.




  8. #62
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation tim290280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duality View Post
    Duality says: overpopulation is a looming problem and we should take steps to address it. a good way would be to provide financial incentive for parents to only have 2 children.

    Ironslave hears: Duality thinks we should implement laws prohibiting people from reproducing. my response to him is get a vasectomy and practice what you preach. people should never for any reason be denied liberties even if those liberties begin to infringe on others.


    why do you think my stance on providing financial incentive for parents to have 2 kids needs to be substantiated by me having a vasectomy? excuse me but have i anywhere said that people should cease reproduction? said we should get laws inacted to make more than 2 children illegal? no and no. i plan on having kids, 2 kids. one to replace myself and my spouse. this does not contribute to the population problem whatsoever.
    There is a saying that only stupid people are breeding. While not quite true it does make a point. Those that will actually think (i.e. the smarter people from the quote) about doing something themselves about population control need to do more than just be neutral. They have to make up for the idiots that will have their share and your share.

    So vascectomies all round then gents!


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  9. #63
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Ironslave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duality View Post
    Duality says: overpopulation is a looming problem and we should take steps to address it. a good way would be to provide financial incentive for parents to only have 2 children.

    Ironslave hears: Duality thinks we should implement laws prohibiting people from reproducing. my response to him is get a vasectomy and practice what you preach. people should never for any reason be denied liberties even if those liberties begin to infringe on others.
    Sumed up nicely



    why do you think my stance on providing financial incentive for parents to have 2 kids needs to be substantiated by me having a vasectomy? excuse me but have i anywhere said that people should cease reproduction? said we should get laws inacted to make more than 2 children illegal? no and no. i plan on having kids, 2 kids. one to replace myself and my spouse. this does not contribute to the population problem whatsoever.
    Who is going to pay financial incentive? Why should I pay someone to keep them from having kids? I know you haven't completely advocated no reproduction, but seriously, if you think it's so bad, and you have little faith that others will, then do it for them. If you have 0 children, and they have 4, it would all even out.




  10. #64
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Duality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironslave View Post
    Sumed up nicely



    Who is going to pay financial incentive? Why should I pay someone to keep them from having kids? I know you haven't completely advocated no reproduction, but seriously, if you think it's so bad, and you have little faith that others will, then do it for them. If you have 0 children, and they have 4, it would all even out.

    whoa whoa whoa.....back it up, by financial incentive i don't mean awarding the parents who have 1 or 2 kids, i mean penalizing through taxes the ones who have in excess of 2. no one is then burdened...except the selfish parents who bring more than they should into the world.


    and dude come one, yes that math works out, but that totally misses the point. this is on a grand scale of things. if i don't have kids, and someone has 4, it's even. but what about the other family who has 5? i certainly can't have children in the negatives...lol. everyone must do their fair share and no one person is going to make the difference in any of this. it is a joint effort.




  11. #65
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation tim290280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duality View Post
    whoa whoa whoa.....back it up, by financial incentive i don't mean awarding the parents who have 1 or 2 kids, i mean penalizing through taxes the ones who have in excess of 2. no one is then burdened...except the selfish parents who bring more than they should into the world.


    and dude come one, yes that math works out, but that totally misses the point. this is on a grand scale of things. if i don't have kids, and someone has 4, it's even. but what about the other family who has 5? i certainly can't have children in the negatives...lol. everyone must do their fair share and no one person is going to make the difference in any of this. it is a joint effort.
    Sound like you are going to have to find several friends to also have vascectomies.




  12. #66
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Duality's Avatar
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    :angrydude: :angrydude: ^^^ you guys are missing the point! :angrydude:




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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Ironslave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duality View Post
    whoa whoa whoa.....back it up, by financial incentive i don't mean awarding the parents who have 1 or 2 kids, i mean penalizing through taxes the ones who have in excess of 2. no one is then burdened...except the selfish parents who bring more than they should into the world.
    And where would this money go towards? What if government then decides that it's going to raise taxes after your first child? Or raise taxes for every child you have?



    and dude come one, yes that math works out, but that totally misses the point. this is on a grand scale of things. if i don't have kids, and someone has 4, it's even. but what about the other family who has 5? i certainly can't have children in the negatives...lol. everyone must do their fair share and no one person is going to make the difference in any of this. it is a joint effort.
    I know, but it's just not fair to tell someone else "sorry, you have enough kids". If people feel strongly that it would be for the good of humanity to lower the population, take the initiative and don't reproduce. Let others "ruin" the earth, but know that you did your part to "save" it.

    ..... I've yet to come across anyone willing to do this.




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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation tim290280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duality View Post
    :angrydude: :angrydude: ^^^ you guys are missing the point! :angrydude:
    You wanted to curb population didn't you?
    THen you have to do something about it, not whine about everyone not doing it. If you are so committed to your view then act upon it.




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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Duality's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ironslave
    And where would this money go towards? What if government then decides that it's going to raise taxes after your first child? Or raise taxes for every child you have?
    um is having extra money a problem? i have an idea, how about we use it to towards our massive federal debt! sounds like a plan!!

    and why would this plan call for more taxes if someone has 2 children or less? i have clearly and many a time stated that 2 children is the limit, to replace you and your spouse. you act as if this plan would spin out of control and tax anyone who has children excessively, it wouldn't , it's a fairly basic and simple concept.

    I know, but it's just not fair to tell someone else "sorry, you have enough kids". If people feel strongly that it would be for the good of humanity to lower the population, take the initiative and don't reproduce. Let others "ruin" the earth, but know that you did your part to "save" it.
    there's no way you can think an excessively populated earth is a good thing. anyone who does is quite frankly....wrong. your acting as if this is subjective, it's not.


    ..... I've yet to come across anyone willing to do this.

    wanna know why? because IT MISSES THE POINT of what true population control is all about. it must be acted on a grand scale. you pretend that the person who will not get a vasectomy is a hypocrite....he's not, not as long as he does his part to make sure the population doesn't increase. and having ONE child to replace yourself insures this.




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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Duality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim290280 View Post
    There is a saying that only stupid people are breeding. While not quite true it does make a point. Those that will actually think (i.e. the smarter people from the quote) about doing something themselves about population control need to do more than just be neutral. They have to make up for the idiots that will have their share and your share.

    So vascectomies all round then gents!


    there's nothing that pisses me off more than seeing an obviously poor mexican family (or any heritage for that matter, but they seem to be the worst offenders) with 6 children trailing them as they enter their local walmart. these people put excess burden on us all and waste our tax dollars when they cannot provide or take care of what they brought into the world. however i do not see the need to punish myself and deny myself A (1) child to make up for their complete stupidity and selfishness.




  17. #71
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation tim290280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duality View Post
    there's nothing that pisses me off more than seeing an obviously poor mexican family (or any heritage for that matter, but they seem to be the worst offenders) with 6 children trailing them as they enter their local walmart. these people put excess burden on us all and waste our tax dollars when they cannot provide or take care of what they brought into the world. however i do not see the need to punish myself and deny myself A (1) child to make up for their complete stupidity and selfishness.
    So you are advocating population control on only certain segments of the society :dunnodude: Eugenics was outlawed for a reason and ethnic cleansing is frowned upon these days.

    You will have a hard time convincing anyone that they should have to curb their reproduction when you are unwilling as well. Just because you only want 2 kids doesn't justify your argument.

    Population isn't really as much of an issue as resource usage, and the two aren't indeliably intertwined.




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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation
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    i want 5 kids :carduindisguise

    so the family that has 2 kids and is just getting by to support them, suddenly the wife gets pregnant and they have a third unplanned child. now they are trying to support three kids when they could barely support two, and on top of that have to pay more taxes to the government :dunnodude:






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