Biden: Paying higher taxes is "patriotic" for wealthy

Ironslave · Sep 18, 2008

Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden said Thursday that paying more in taxes is the patriotic thing to do for wealthier Americans. In a new TV ad that repeats widely debunked claims about the Democratic tax plan, the Republican campaign calls Obama's tax increases "painful."

Under the economic plan proposed by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, people earning more than $250,000 a year would pay more in taxes while those earning less — the vast majority of American taxpayers — would receive a tax cut.

Although Republican John McCain claims that Obama would raise taxes, the independent Tax Policy Center and other groups conclude that four out of five U.S. households would receive tax cuts under Obama's proposals.

"We want to take money and put it back in the pocket of middle-class people," Biden said in an interview on ABC's "Good Morning America."

Noting that wealthier Americans would indeed pay more, Biden said: "It's time to be patriotic ... time to jump in, time to be part of the deal, time to help get America out of the rut."

McCain released a television ad Thursday charging that Obama would increase the size of the federal government amid an economic crisis. Contending that "a big government casts a big shadow on us all," the ad features the image of a shadow slowly covering a sleeping baby as a narrator misstates the reach of the Obama tax proposal.

"Obama and his liberal congressional allies want a massive government, billions in spending increases, wasteful pork," the ad says. "And we would pay — painful income taxes, skyrocketing taxes on life savings, electricity and home heating oil. Can your family afford that?"

The McCain campaign said the ad is set to run nationally.

Bulkboy · Sep 18, 2008

a guy earning 250000 dollars per year can afford alittle tax increase in a time of economic turmoil better than a regular joe struggling to make 40000 per year. to me it sounds like a sensible thing to do.

Tech · Sep 18, 2008

Bulkboy said:
to me it sounds like a sensible thing to do.

of course it sounds sensible to you. you agree with every idiotic idea the government proposes.

Clint · Sep 18, 2008

change.

Obama will steal it, including the pennies lost in your moms cooter.

Bulkboy · Sep 18, 2008

Tech said:
of course it sounds sensible to you. you agree with every idiotic idea the government proposes.

wat? u speak of the government in very simplistic terms here. its not like everyone within the goverment is gonna be for this idea, some will, and i am among them. mccain obviously dont wanna raise taxes alittle, and hes part of the big bad government right? raising taxes to u americans is so radical, to me there is nothing radical about millionaires having to pay alittle more of their income in a time of crisis instead of the ordinary guy at the factory. its not like a guy who already makes 5 million a year is gonna suffer so badly from having to pay 10000 more.

El Freako · Sep 18, 2008

Tweak said:
including the pennies lost in your moms cooter.

I lost my watch in your mum's cooter.

Ironslave · Sep 18, 2008

Bulkboy said:
wat? u speak of the government in very simplistic terms here. its not like everyone within the goverment is gonna be for this idea, some will, and i am among them. mccain obviously dont wanna raise taxes alittle, and hes part of the big bad government right? raising taxes to u americans is so radical, to me there is nothing radical about millionaires having to pay alittle more of their income in a time of crisis instead of the ordinary guy at the factory. its not like a guy who already makes 5 million a year is gonna suffer so badly from having to pay 10000 more.

It's the idea of the state forcing someone to do something extra, so essentially they're being punished for their success.

pegasus · Sep 18, 2008

Bulkboy said:
wat? u speak of the government in very simplistic terms here. its not like everyone within the goverment is gonna be for this idea, some will, and i am among them. mccain obviously dont wanna raise taxes alittle, and hes part of the big bad government right? raising taxes to u americans is so radical, to me there is nothing radical about millionaires having to pay alittle more of their income in a time of crisis instead of the ordinary guy at the factory. its not like a guy who already makes 5 million a year is gonna suffer so badly from having to pay 10000 more.

like O'Reilly said, if the tax caps are removed people some people will be forced to pay hundreds if not millions more in taxes.

if being successful is a reason for someone to be punished then why would anyone want to aim to become succesful? this way people will be encouraged to just be lazy and depend on the government for hand outs!

that guy who works in the factory has every opportunity available for him to advance and earn more, so i see no reason at all to sympathise with people who don't earn much.

Tonyk212000 · Sep 18, 2008

There not being punished its a form of equality. Why should someone making 250,000 pay the same as someone getting payed 50,000? If someone earning 50,000 pays 5,000 a year then someone making 250,000 should pay 25,000. You guys get it??? It makes everything equal among tax payers.

Also why are you guys bitching none of you make that much so its helping you out :dunnodude:

Ironslave · Sep 18, 2008

pegasus said:
if being successful is a reason for someone to be punished then why would anyone want to aim to become succesful? this way people will be encouraged to just be lazy and depend on the government for hand outs!

Excellent point. There needs to be incentive for someone to work hard, and provide for themselves. Personally, here in Canada, I'd LOVE to see our health care system adjusted to not cover obesity related illness, I'd be willing to bet it'd force people to get off their lazy asses.

Obviously, not everyone is going to be a millionaire, and many people won't be happy in jobs that pay well but aren't enjoyable. But, there are tons of fields out there short on skilled/educated workers. For example, my mother is a teacher, she has a masters degree, and makes around 40k a year, which is a respectable salary in a middle class income bracket. Loads of jobs like this exist, which no, any average joe off the street isn't going to be able to just walk into, but through putting effort in to learn/educate themselves they would have no problem.

MuscleMecca Crew

Ironslave · Sep 18, 2008

Tonyk212000 said:
There not being punished its a form of equality. Why should someone making 250,000 pay the same as someone getting payed 50,000? If someone earning 50,000 pays 5,000 a year then someone making 250,000 should pay 25,000. You guys get it??? It makes everything equal among tax payers.

Also why are you guys bitching none of you make that much so its helping you out

That is just absurd. What you are advocating is basically communism, where the state is able to redistribute your wealth, and has the power to decide that you are making too much money, so they will steal more of it.

Someone making 250k should pay the same as someone making 50k because they are each individuals, who are citizens of the same country and (supposed to be) projected under the laws of the constitution.

Your argument about "none of us making over 250k so we should stop bitching" is also absurd. This is exactly the kind of shit where people in higher income brackets are punished, while those in lower income brackets are given incentive to be less productive to the economy, because they know that the government will take care of them. Part of arguing for policy isn't for one's own individual greed, it's for the principles of society as a whole.

Bulkboy · Sep 18, 2008

^^ i dont view it as punishment, here in norway people with high income pay a significant amount of taxes, but they are still richer than everybody else, and they still have enough money to live like kings. thats how it should be. look, i like rich people, they create jobs and are good for a country, but in a time of economic crisis, its more logical to put alittle more of the tax burden on the wealthy instead of the average guy. u know pegasus, not everyone can be a stock share holder or a CEO. most people have average jobs, and it need to be like that, the factory workers build the nation. and to me, its better that the factory worker pays alittle less taxes of his 40000$ than that the CEO who makes 30 mill gets a tax reduction. the CEO and will still have a shitload of money and be encouraged to invest etc. so im just saying that it will matter alot more for the average guy to get a tax reduction. that being said i dont support a massive tax burden on the wealthy, just abit more than the average worker. people who have made it and are already rich should view it as a priviliege to be able to contribute back to the society that let them work their way up.

Tonyk212000 · Sep 18, 2008

Ironslave said:
That is just absurd. What you are advocating is basically communism, where the state is able to redistribute your wealth, and has the power to decide that you are making too much money, so they will steal more of it.

Someone making 250k should pay the same as someone making 50k because they are each individuals, who are citizens of the same country and (supposed to be) projected under the laws of the constitution.

Your argument about "none of us making over 250k so we should stop bitching" is also absurd. This is exactly the kind of shit where people in higher income brackets are punished, while those in lower income brackets are given incentive to be less productive to the economy, because they know that the government will take care of them. Part of arguing for policy isn't for one's own individual greed, it's for the principles of society as a whole.

You are missing the point. Just cause someone makes 50,000 doesn't mean they dont contribute and didn't work hard to get where there at. Some people careers just don't have the kind of advancement to make that much. Also it is not absurd that i said none of us make that much. You and everyone else on here will get a tax break so what is the problem. Do you like paying the same much as people who got lucky with their career choice and make a shit load of money? Dont even argue with me about it being luck either cause it is. Everything has to go right for you to make that much money.

Tech · Sep 18, 2008

we should make black people pay more taxes.

right?

right?

:wutyousay:

Bulkboy · Sep 18, 2008

Tech said:
we should make black people pay more taxes.

right?

right?

:wutyousay:

what are u trying to prove here? how does taxing rich people more than poor have anything to do with race? :uhoh2:

this statement have no relevance whatsoever, and u know it.

Tech · Sep 18, 2008

Bulkboy said:
what are u trying to prove here? how does taxing rich people more than poor have anything to do with race? this statement have no relevance whatsoever, and u know it.

discrimination is discrimination.

just because someone is wealthy, it doesn't mean you are allowed to treat them unfairly.

Flex · Sep 18, 2008

Bulkboy, have you always been a communist?

pegasus · Sep 18, 2008

in response to bulkboy, I also live in a country where u get taxed 40% but belive me these people who you mention pay no where near that much. CEO's and shareholders all have a set income just like O'Reilly does, and they pay that 40% tax on that, but these guys get there millions in the form of dividends which used to be taxed at a rate of 18% which has now gone up a bit.

all this bullshit about the rich paying more income tax is just talk. its there to get people hyped up in the hope of paying less tax and getting something for nothing, so that they'd go to the polling station and vote. obama and McCain both know that these rich people are the source of most of the party donations, why the fuck would they wanna upset them.

Right now the movie; Gladiator comes to mind. If you can remember this conversation which took place between the two senators:

Falco: You really think people are going to be seduced by that?
Gracchus: I think he knows what Rome is. Rome is the mob. Conjure magic for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of Rome is not the marble of the senate, it's the sand of the coliseum. He'll bring them death - and they will love him for it.

In someways I see the same happening in america today.

Clint · Sep 18, 2008

hope.

Ironslave · Sep 18, 2008

Nice set up by Tech, it was bought hook line and sinker :49:

Bulkboy said:
^^ i dont view it as punishment, here in norway people with high income pay a significant amount of taxes, but they are still richer than everybody else, and they still have enough money to live like kings. thats how it should be.

So do we in Canada, a LOT more, and it sucks. It's those in the lower income bracket who like these systems because they're the ones benefiting from the class warfare of others. They're not the ones losing the fruits of their labor, they're the ones who are enjoying the fruits of other people's labor.

look, i like rich people, they create jobs and are good for a country, but in a time of economic crisis, its more logical to put alittle more of the tax burden on the wealthy instead of the average guy.

You mean, let the government force the economic burdeon on the wealthy, right? This is communism. Communism is "a socioeconomic structure that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production and property in general." Look at what is happening in America right now in the last week, with Fannie/Freddie and AIG, it's absolute madness. Close to one TRILLION dollars will be spent by the time it is done to bail out these. To give you an analogy, here's a comment my friend, who was a youth director for the Ron Paul campaign had to say.

Congratulations!!! We’re all homeowners! You own a house! I own a house! Now we can all feel so accomplished. The American dream is finally realized! This is what our forefathers fought so hard for.

Now that the mortgage market has been nationalized, this is essentially the case. Every taxpaying American has the right to say they own a stake in most every house in America. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are now issuing upwards of 80% of all new mortgages in today’s market. And since no red blooded American seems to pay cash for a house, that means there’s a good chance you and I own a stake in every new house sold.

Whippie! If you’re ever in need of a bathroom, just go to the nearest new residential development. Tell them you’re a part owner. Speaking of… shouldn’t all houses now be ADA compliant. What if I’m handicapped? Since I technically own part of the house, the government should force builders to accommodate my disability. Handrails and high toilet seats for all!

When first learning about money and investing, I was always perplexed by the housing market.
“A house is an investment son… it builds equity.”
“Why isn’t a car an investment?”
“It loses value once it’s taken off the lot.”
“How is a house any different??? Our house is a lot less nice now than when we got it”
“Cause… of… reasons… ”

And the reason is – a bubble. A house isn’t an investment any more than dental floss is. Sure dental floss could be an investment if the price of wax goes up. And the price of housing kept going up and up thanks to a government created bubble. The problem with housing is that once the market goes down you can’t sell it as easily as dental floss – that and the fact that most Americans have all their assets in their house.

If I bought stock in Google, and it went down – can the government bail me out? That’s pretty much what’s going on, except the stock was your house.

Politicians in Washington have no clue on this mess or on economics in general. Obama does a good job of pretending he does (like everything else). But blaming the lenders and Wall Street for being greedy and drunk is fairly irresponsible, especially when you’re the one buying the bourbon. Wall Street is going to be greedy – that’s what they do.

As Jim Rogers recently lamented, “we are now more socialist than China.” And there is no middle road to pure socialism. I’m going start buying stock in those ADA compliant toilets.

please read that, and the links in it.

u know pegasus, not everyone can be a stock share holder or a CEO. most people have average jobs, and it need to be like that, the factory workers build the nation.

Where did he, or anybody here, say anything close to that? Stop with the strawmen arguments please.

and to me, its better that the factory worker pays alittle less taxes of his 40000$ than that the CEO who makes 30 mill gets a tax reduction. the CEO and will still have a shitload of money and be encouraged to invest etc. so im just saying that it will matter alot more for the average guy to get a tax reduction. that being said i dont support a massive tax burden on the wealthy, just abit more than the average worker. people who have made it and are already rich should view it as a priviliege to be able to contribute back to the society that let them work their way up.

But why should the factory worker be given special treatment? Who should make the decision as to what actually constitutes a "shit load"? Someone in government, like Obama? (Who literally, proposes this amount as those making 250k).

They should view it as a privilege that the government steals their money from them and puts it to something they have no idea what? :49:

. You are seriously expressing communist views. I'm not calling you a communist directly, because I know you'll take it as an insult and deny it... but literally, you are advocating communism.

Can you not realize that all the problems in today's American economy are due to the government/fed? So why the fuck should they be given more power??

Biden: Paying higher taxes is "patriotic" for wealthy

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