• musclemecca bodybuilding forums does not sell or endorse any bodybuilding gear, products or supplements.
    Musclemecca has no affiliation with advertisers; they simply purchase advertising space here. If you have questions go to their site and ask them directly.
    Advertisers are responsible for the content in their forums.
    DO NOT SELL ILLEGAL PRODUCTS ON OUR FORUM

CEE vs. Mono

allstar

allstar

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
132
Points
16
Originally Posted by Dr. Stout, T-Nation, "Creatine or Ethyl Ester Creatine"
There are three senarios for CEE

1) CEE is a true covalently bonded ester and is absorbed into blood and tissues as the intact molecule. This is the picture that the
manufacturers would have us believe and is the basis for why they claim CEE is superior to creatine monohydrate. However, inside cells CEE will be unreactive with creatine kinase and may be a potential
competitive or non-competitive inhibitor to the enzyme. This would
make it toxic to brain, heart, testes, muscle and all other CK containing tissues. People by now should be dying, but clearly are not and this means 2) and 3) are the more likely. Nonethess, CEE should be treated as a potentially toxic phrarmaceutical and in the US should be treated as a drug, which requires multi species studies to estimate LD50's and potential sites of tissue damage etc. However, recently I have been told that CEE did get new dietary ingredient status (scary).

2) CEE is hydrolysed to creatine on absorption from the gut. In this
case CEE offers no advantage over creatine monohydrate which has a bioavilability of 100%. Indeed if hydrolysis of CEE is less than 100%
then it will be inferior to the monohydate. But in the case of hydrolysis there are no circumstances in which it could be better than
the monohydrate in increasing tissue creatine levels. Obviously CEE
manufacturers would prefer 1) except that they then shoot themselves in the foot over the issue of potential toxicity.

3) CEE is not a true covalently bonded ester. The whole of this is a scam with the compound ionising in solution to free creatine, as does the monohydrate and all salts of creatine. In this case CEE would again represent no advantage over creatine monohydrate, except to the seller who can double the price.

The failure of the US sports nutrition community (industry and the
universities) to call for closer examination of CEE seriously questions its credibility in the eyes of many scientist in this country and the world. A simple water solvation test would answer 3), i.e. whether or not it was a covalent or ionisable derivative of creatine. The work time would be about one hour. Investigation of whether CEE is a competitive or non-competitive inhibitor of creatine kinase would take 2-3 hours. If either of these occured then clearly CEE must be investigated in at least two species to investigate lethality and potential organ damage. If on the other hand CEE is ionisable then I see no reason why a bioavailability study should not be undertaken comparing this, on a molar/molar basis, with creatine monohydrate. My guess is that plasma AUC would be identical. Again a very simple study.

None of this is rocket science but could spare a few lives, if the
manufacturers claims on the absorption of CEE are to believed.

OH! and one more thought: Another aspect to consider is how CEE would overcome a huge concentration gradient from circulation to muscle if it does not use the creatine transporter and uses simple diffusion as they promote.

Bottom Line: I say stay with good old GERMAN creatine Monohydrate. 500 human studies can't be wrong. :)
 
PrinceVegeta

PrinceVegeta

Mecca V.I.P.
VIP
Joined
Apr 7, 2007
Messages
10,156
Points
38
Good find man! i was pondering on wether gettin good old creatine or cee...thanx!
 
allstar

allstar

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
132
Points
16
Def. get mono, make sure its micronized and your good to go.i prefer Dymatize and its cheap
 
The Creator

The Creator

Mecca V.I.P.
VIP
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Messages
2,487
Points
38
CEE makes me crack porcelain every time I have it. My stomach doesnt get along with the stuff at all.
 
allstar

allstar

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
132
Points
16
thats because it breaks down as soon as it hits acids very much like the acids in your stomach
 
cuts

cuts

Banned
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
175
Points
16
im using creatine AKG, is that scam too???
 
allstar

allstar

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
132
Points
16
Alpha-ketoglutarate (AKG) is the nitrogen-free portion of the amino acids known as glutamine and glutamic acid, so once again the only studies on AKG have been done on people given it through IV. I also havent found studies on creatine AKG yet, so until I do, I'm still standing by my CrM as #1
 
mitbar23

mitbar23

Member
Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
12
Points
1
nice find allstar. great info.
 
cuts

cuts

Banned
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
175
Points
16
Alpha-ketoglutarate (AKG) is the nitrogen-free portion of the amino acids known as glutamine and glutamic acid, so once again the only studies on AKG have been done on people given it through IV. I also havent found studies on creatine AKG yet, so until I do, I'm still standing by my CrM as #1

creatine-AKG is such a great option for so-called "creatine non-responders." It maximizes creatine concentration in the muscle by taking advantage of AKG as a transporter of creatine.

more


http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/creatine_akg.htm
 

MuscleMecca Crew

Mecca Staff

Similar threads

allstar
Replies
5
Views
3K
The_KM
The_KM
Top