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Protein shake question.

Zigurd

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In another forum some guys told me that mixing a protein shake with anything but water was wasting the whey.

I usually always drink my protein shake with fat-free milk, but they said the milk had a different absorption rate and so the whey would get wasted and blah blah blah

Does this hold any truth ? I tried searching for info but nothing found =/
Should I keep taking my whey with milk ? Or is it more efficient with water ?

I always thought milk would be a great "add-on" to whey, with all it's animal hormones and shit xD
 
Big VIC

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It does hold some truth NEO

Casein is the predominant protein in milk. For example, the protein in cheese and cottage cheese is casein. Sometimes it's shown on the label as caseinate or micellar casein. Milk (casein) is a slow digesting protein that provides a steady stream of amino acids to your muscles -- up to 7 hours. It also has a naturally high glutamine content, higher than whey, egg or soy. Because of its prolonged release effect, it's one of the best proteins for preventing muscle breakdown and is very low in lactose.

So it would just be a "waste" if you used the milk in a post work out shake perfect for before bed or when you know your not going to be able to eat for few hours...
 
Skeptic

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As post workout you could consider it wasting the whey because of the slow absorption rate.
 
Zigurd

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So... post workout I should drink it with water.

But for breakfast ?
Would it be ok to drink it with milk ?

Also, how does the Casein interact with the whey ? The body absorbs less whey ?
 
PrinceVegeta

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Pre and post workout with water, rest can be with milk
 
Zigurd

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Pre and post workout with water, rest can be with milk

Awesome thanks !!!

But I'd like to know how exactly does the milk affect the whey absorption. So if the stomach get's some slow digestive protein (casein) mixed with fast absorbed protein (whey) the fast absorbed protein get's thrown away ? Or it also get's absorbed slowly ?

In what negative way does the milk affect the absorption. I'll rep the fuck out of who can link me to an article or give me good info :p
 
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Tnx 4 the info, sound pretty interesting.
 
Skeptic

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So... post workout I should drink it with water.

But for breakfast ?
Would it be ok to drink it with milk ?

Also, how does the Casein interact with the whey ? The body absorbs less whey ?

For breakfast? Egg whites. lol The only time I think its useful to use whey protein is pre/post workout.
 
BigBen

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their is some truth to that but if you had a good preworkout meal i wouldn't worry to much about the difference of the little addition milk adds to digestion time. This is what i mean. once the bolus(the digested food) has passed your stomach as far as digention rate is concerned bolus's(the digested food) are equal. Your bacteria in your intestines works at the same rate no matter what you eat it eats and absorbs steak at the same rate it does milk. The time digestion is different is in the stomach a steak can take any where from 3-5 hours and a protein shake could be anywhere from 45 min to an hour to pass the stomach that is the rate that gentleman was referring to was the rate of digestion in the stomach. so if your bacteria in your small intestine are still feeding on breakfast whats the difference if you have a protein shake with water or milk IMO i would opt out for the milk. After it passes the stomach and the part that matters is what gets into the blood from the intestines to the portal vein to the liver to the blood, i would rather have the nutrients bc the extra 15 mins or so is not really that significant as total calories or nutrients you take in for the day.

with that said im not a fan of milk unless its whole fat milk bc it has been treated less.
 
The Creator

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Milk in itself can be a very controversial subject. And as big ben said about the whole milk, I have sat in a few seminars where some very educated folks have mentioned that whole milk is the only milk worth drinking.
On the note of whey with milk, the milk itself isnt really going to affect the digestion of the whey protein powder. Whey is a faster acting protein than milk as a whole. Now fat can slightly slow the digestion of whey so whole milk could possibly slow it slightly but I doubt that you are having your shake with whole milk. It is not worthless to mix the two, but depending on how much milk you use, you could just be overdoing it with protein content. I would suggest whey with milk in the morning to the tune of about 30 grams max and post workout should be a mixture of whey and casein. I dont have the study right on hand but I can dig it up if anybody would like to see it proving that whey and casein supplementation post workout is much more effective than whey alone. And post workout could be done with milk or water. Milk is actually this perfect mixture of whey and casein as the study suggests so it may be more beneficial. The good ol chocolate milk post workout is never a bad choice! Hope this helps.
 

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tim290280

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Milk in itself can be a very controversial subject. And as big ben said about the whole milk, I have sat in a few seminars where some very educated folks have mentioned that whole milk is the only milk worth drinking.
On the note of whey with milk, the milk itself isnt really going to affect the digestion of the whey protein powder. Whey is a faster acting protein than milk as a whole. Now fat can slightly slow the digestion of whey so whole milk could possibly slow it slightly but I doubt that you are having your shake with whole milk. It is not worthless to mix the two, but depending on how much milk you use, you could just be overdoing it with protein content. I would suggest whey with milk in the morning to the tune of about 30 grams max and post workout should be a mixture of whey and casein. I dont have the study right on hand but I can dig it up if anybody would like to see it proving that whey and casein supplementation post workout is much more effective than whey alone. And post workout could be done with milk or water. Milk is actually this perfect mixture of whey and casein as the study suggests so it may be more beneficial. The good ol chocolate milk post workout is never a bad choice! Hope this helps.

Yeh I've posted the whey vs casein study a few times:
The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research: Vol. 20, No. 3, pp. 643–653.

The Effects of Protein and Amino Acid Supplementation on Performance and Training Adaptations During Ten Weeks of Resistance Training

Chad M. Kerksick, Christopher J. Rasmussen, Stacy L. Lancaster, Bharat Magu, Penney Smith, Charles Melton, Michael Greenwood, and Richard B. Kreider

The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of whey protein supplementation on body composition, muscular strength, muscular endurance, and anaerobic capacity during 10 weeks of resistance training. Thirty-six resistance-trained males (31.0 ± 8.0 years, 179.1 ± 8.0 cm, 84.0 ± 12.9 kg, 17.8 ± 6.6%) followed a 4 days-per-week split body part resistance training program for 10 weeks. Three groups of supplements were randomly assigned, prior to the beginning of the exercise program, in a double-blind manner to all subjects: 48 g per day (g·d−1) carbohydrate placebo (P), 40 g·d−1 of whey protein + 8 g·d−1 of casein (WC), or 40 g·d−1 of whey protein + 3 g·d−1 branched-chain amino acids + 5 g·d−1 L-glutamine (WBG). At 0, 5, and 10 weeks, subjects were tested for fasting blood samples, body mass, body composition using dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), 1 repetition maximum (1RM) bench and leg press, 80% 1RM maximal repetitions to fatigue for bench press and leg press, and 30-second Wingate anaerobic capacity tests. No changes (p > 0.05) were noted in all groups for energy intake, training volume, blood parameters, and anaerobic capacity. WC experienced the greatest increases in DEXA lean mass (P = 0.0 ± 0.9; WC = 1.9 ± 0.6; WBG = −0.1 ± 0.3 kg, p < 0.05) and DEXA fat-free mass (P = 0.1 ± 1.0; WC = 1.8 ± 0.6; WBG = −0.1 ± 0.2 kg, p < 0.05). Significant increases in 1RM bench press and leg press were observed in all groups after 10 weeks. In this study, the combination of whey and casein protein promoted the greatest increases in fat-free mass after 10 weeks of heavy resistance training. Athletes, coaches, and nutritionists can use these findings to increase fat-free mass and to improve body composition during resistance training.
Plus:
Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 280: E340-E348, 2001
The digestion rate of protein is an independent regulating factor of postprandial protein retention
Martial Dangin1,3, Yves Boirie1, Clara Garcia-Rodenas3, Pierre Gachon1, Jacques Fauquant2, Philippe Callier3, Olivier Ballèvre3, and Bernard Beaufrère1

To evaluate the importance of protein digestion rate on protein deposition, we characterized leucine kinetics after ingestion of "protein" meals of identical amino acid composition and nitrogen contents but of different digestion rates. Four groups of five or six young men received an L-[1-13C]leucine infusion and one of the following 30-g protein meals: a single meal of slowly digested casein (CAS), a single meal of free amino acid mimicking casein composition (AA), a single meal of rapidly digested whey proteins (WP), or repeated meals of whey proteins (RPT-WP) mimicking slow digestion rate. Comparisons were made between "fast" (AA, WP) and "slow" (CAS, RPT-WP) meals of identical amino acid composition (AA vs. CAS, and WP vs. RPT-WP). The fast meals induced a strong, rapid, and transient increase of aminoacidemia, leucine flux, and oxidation. After slow meals, these parameters increased moderately but durably. Postprandial leucine balance over 7 h was higher after the slow than after the fast meals (CAS: 38 ± 13 vs. AA: -12 ± 11, P < 0.01; RPT-WP: 87 ± 25 vs. WP: 6 ± 19 µmol/kg, P < 0.05). Protein digestion rate is an independent factor modulating postprandial protein deposition.
Plus:


I think that while you may slow the absorption slightly it won't be that big a deal as you are talking something like 1-2g of casein in normal milk, less in skim/etc. I don't want to get into the "whole milk" debate again, as I've already covered it here:

Suffice to say that yes milk is bloody good stuff, you should drink it (provided you don't happen to be lactose intollerant i.e. not of any European descent) and that the losses in biological factors is small and outweighs the risks of death and infection from not pasteurising.
 
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PrinceVegeta

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Nice articles Tim, thanx to your input on the matter creator.
 
Natzo

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Great info there guys!

I only drink my shakes with water, it tastes better and digests better.
 
tim290280

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^^ Doesn't digest any differently.

Only difference will be in gastric emptying. If anything the slower digestion from the casein will actually lead to better digestion.
 

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