Taxpayer Funded Abortions?

Tech · Jul 29, 2009

The Immorality of Taxpayer Funded Abortion

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=152

Healthcare continues to dominate the agenda on Capitol Hill as House leadership and the administration try to ram through their big government healthcare plan. Fortunately, they have been unsuccessful so far, as there are many horrifying provisions tucked into this massive piece of legislation. One major issue is the public funding of elective abortions.

Forcing pro-life taxpayers to subsidize abortion is evil and tyrannical.

I'm not a pro-lifer, but he brings up a great point.

Ironslave · Jul 29, 2009

agreed... I am pro life, just because you have to be pretty reckless to get pregnant (let's not nitpick about cases of rape or whatever, over 90% of abortions are for birth control). But forcing someone who strongly is pro life for religious purposes to pay for these is tyrannical.

Hypocrisy86 · Jul 29, 2009

I think people should do what they want to, to be honest.

Tech · Jul 29, 2009

Hypocrisy86 said:
I think people should do what they want to, to be honest.

I'm sorta with you....but even if you're pro-choice, surely you don't want your tax money to be used in this way.

El Freako · Jul 29, 2009

Its a conundrum because I'm sure pro-choicers would be more than happy to have their tax-money spent on it. I'm pro-choice but I understand where pro-lifers are coming from in the matter, however in the same sense I am against having my tax money spent on needless "defence" budgets and wars but I don't really have a choice in that matter either. Its still a moral dilemma. Others are probably against having their tax money spent on welfare, etc. I think people just need to bite the bullet. You pay tax but you don't have a choice where it goes. Live with it.

tim290280 · Jul 29, 2009

^^ THat's a good point Freako. There are a lot of things that tax money gets spent on that I don't agree with. I don't see how this is any less tyrannical than any of those.

I was having a discussion over the expenditure of $$ on the arts the other day. We were trying to figure out whether we approved of the Govt funding the arts. I like symphony orchestras, and art galleries but shouldn't they be standing on their own two feet?

Oh and I'm pro-choice, because at the end of the day we want to raise a happy healthy child into society not create the next Ted Bundy.

Tech · Jul 29, 2009

El Freako said:
You pay tax but you don't have a choice where it goes. Live with it.

well, we kinda do actually.

Obviously I mean in theory we decide how our taxes are spent. In reality, lobbyists and scumbag politicians decide.

The Creator · Jul 29, 2009

In my opinion this is just like me paying for some fat ass to get medical care because of diabetes, heart disease, stroke, cancer etc. To pay for something that is absolutely controllable is absurd.

tim290280 · Jul 29, 2009

^^ Welcome to democracy, have a nice day :xyxthumbs:

I agree. But it is the inherent risk we run for a democratic society. The majority are the ones that decide, not the smartest, not the best informed, not even those with understanding.....

Ryeland · Jul 31, 2009

Ironslave said:
agreed... I am pro life, just because you have to be pretty reckless to get pregnant (let's not nitpick about cases of rape or whatever, over 90% of abortions are for birth control). But forcing someone who strongly is pro life for religious purposes to pay for these is tyrannical.

Bump. Abortions are a tricky issue. I am pro-life in that you made a choice to have sex, in this day and age you knew the risks, now you have live with the consequences of that choice.

It is interesting that so called "social abortions" (abortions where rape did not occur and there is no reasonable risk to the mother) would be covered under the universal healthcare.

MuscleMecca Crew

tim290280 · Jul 31, 2009

Ryeland said:
Bump. Abortions are a tricky issue. I am pro-life in that you made a choice to have sex, in this day and age you knew the risks, now you have live with the consequences of that choice.

It is interesting that so called "social abortions" (abortions where rape did not occur and there is no reasonable risk to the mother) would be covered under the universal healthcare.

I don't know that a lot of people really understand the consequences of their actions. Teenagers brains are still at a stage were they struggle with an understanding of consequences of actions (and results in risk taking activities). So they won't necessarily fully comprehend the resultant pregnancy as they are more concerned about the sex.

Tech · Aug 1, 2009

tim290280 said:
I don't know that a lot of people really understand the consequences of their actions. Teenagers brains are still at a stage were they struggle with an understanding of consequences of actions (and results in risk taking activities). So they won't necessarily fully comprehend the resultant pregnancy as they are more concerned about the sex.

Seems like thats a problem for the parents to deal with, not taxpayers.

tim290280 · Aug 1, 2009

^^ Larger social consequences dude. Poor, teenage, single parents aren't exactly what you would call productive members of society that will raise wonderful members of society.

Better to nip it in the bud so to speak.

Ryeland · Aug 1, 2009

tim290280 said:
I don't know that a lot of people really understand the consequences of their actions. Teenagers brains are still at a stage were they struggle with an understanding of consequences of actions (and results in risk taking activities). So they won't necessarily fully comprehend the resultant pregnancy as they are more concerned about the sex.

Agreed, Teenagers are by and large very shortsighted (lord knows i was) about everything, especially sex. However with sexual education (in canada we start in 4th grade, so 9 year olds) these days most kids know (at the least on paper) the risks of what can happen when you have sex.

Bringing kids into a family that cannot support them is never a good idea, i will agree with you on that. That being said there are a very large number of wonderful, well positioned, couples who can't have children, so adoption is a viable option (i have an adopted cousin).

Again, being a man I will never have to make this choice, but the attitude some take towards abortion these days bothers me. Abortion being used as essentially retroactive contraception is incredibly irresponsible.

Ironslave · Aug 1, 2009

When I was in my early teens, I thought if I had unprotected sex with a girl, she was likely to get pregnant. Now, I know that it is NOT easy to get someone pregnant, there are only so few days a month it can happen, and you essentially need to 'forget' to pull out. I think we seem to forget how we were when we were teens, they aren't mindless to education of something as life changing as pregnancy.

Ryeland said:
Abortion being used as essentially retroactive contraception is incredibly irresponsible.

Excellent way to put it.

Ryeland · Aug 1, 2009

Ironslave said:
When I was in my early teens, I thought if I had unprotected sex with a girl, she was likely to get pregnant. Now, I know that it is NOT easy to get someone pregnant, there are only so few days a month it can happen, and you essentially need to 'forget' to pull out. I think we seem to forget how we were when we were teens, they aren't mindless to education of something as life changing as pregnancy.

Oh I agree, from age 10 on i knew if i had unprotected sex with a girl it could lead to pregnancy. However I did not understand (and will not fully understand till i have kids) the real consequences of that. I had a friend in highschool who got his girl pregnant. So i asked him if he was being safe and he said "well not really, i mean i pull out". And then he said "I didn't think it would happen to me". I mean he full well knew what the math and words said, but he didn't have a personal understanding of it until that point.

But I would love to see people take more responsibility for their own actions, our society seems to let people shirk too much responsibility onto others.

tim290280 · Aug 2, 2009

Ryeland said:
Abortion being used as essentially retroactive contraception is incredibly irresponsible.

I too completely agree with this point.

So basically we need a middle ground were there is access to abortion, but that option is not just the easy option. Cost prohibitions is a double edged sword as poorer people will balk, but it does act as a good disincentive for reckless use of abortion. Medical consults could weed things out, but doctors aren't going to be the best judges in all cases.

Ironslave · Aug 3, 2009

tim290280 said:
I too completely agree with this point.

So basically we need a middle ground were there is access to abortion, but that option is not just the easy option. Cost prohibitions is a double edged sword as poorer people will balk, but it does act as a good disincentive for reckless use of abortion. Medical consults could weed things out, but doctors aren't going to be the best judges in all cases.

I'm still against abortion. The way I think of it, how would you (and I mean anybody, not Tim by any means) feel if your mother was going to have an abortion with you? A child doesn't deserve to be robbed the right to life, and I do view the child as a person with rights. I remember Dr. Paul discussing abortion, and mentioning that when he was an Obstetrician, if he made a mistake in caring for a pregnant woman and she had a miscarriage, he could be criminally prosecuted for manslaughter.

There are lots of consequences to lots of bad decisions in life, if people make a poor one, they should be forced to live with it (at least, for those 9 months, and then feel free to have it adopted if they please.)

Ryeland · Aug 3, 2009

Ironslave said:
I'm still against abortion. The way I think of it, how would you (and I mean anybody, not Tim by any means) feel if your mother was going to have an abortion with you? A child doesn't deserve to be robbed the right to life, and I do view the child as a person with rights. I remember Dr. Paul discussing abortion, and mentioning that when he was an Obstetrician, if he made a mistake in caring for a pregnant woman and she had a miscarriage, he could be criminally prosecuted for manslaughter.

There are lots of consequences to lots of bad decisions in life, if people make a poor one, they should be forced to live with it (at least, for those 9 months, and then feel free to have it adopted if they please.)

Your opinion is very similar to mine. If you have consensual sex you run the risk of getting pregnant. People should take responsibility for their actions. Rape and risky pregnancies are a different story.

I look at it as the idea that it is manslaughter mostly because if you didn't interfere a child would most likely be born. The action of abortion ends a life.

However I am not a woman and will never have to make this choice, so I accept that there are certain parts of it that i will never fully comprehend. However there is the question of an unwanted child being brought into the world. If a good adoptive family can't be found and the child's biological parents can't support it what then? It's a complicated issue, but my underlying view point is that the child should have the chance to live.

Ironslave · Aug 3, 2009

Ryeland said:
Your opinion is very similar to mine. If you have consensual sex you run the risk of getting pregnant. People should take responsibility for their actions. Rape and risky pregnancies are a different story.

Agreed, they are very rare though in the overall percentage of abortions, like you said, retroactive birth control.

However I am not a woman and will never have to make this choice, so I accept that there are certain parts of it that i will never fully comprehend. However there is the question of an unwanted child being brought into the world. If a good adoptive family can't be found and the child's biological parents can't support it what then? It's a complicated issue, but my underlying view point is that the child should have the chance to live.

Pretty much agree. I have faith that there are many amazing people out there who cannot have children, but would love to care for an adopted like your own.

Taxpayer Funded Abortions?

Tech

Ron Paul FTW

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Tech

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Tech

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