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  1. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironslave View Post
    I wouldn't say Tiger's values differ because he's rich and powerful, and while he is the closest thing there is to being inhuman in the sporting world, he's still human. It's tough to resist when you can have almost any beautiful woman in the world right then and there simply by using the pick up line "Hi, I'm Tiger Woods."

    That is exactly the point. To steal a phrase from Frederich Nietzsche Tiger is all to human. More the reason not to pay him any special attention when he screws up.

    Hope you're prepared to live an uncomfortable and joyless life.
    It would be a great day if those things happened, but until they do i am not so idealistic to not accept people for who they are rather than who i would prefer them to be. Wouldn't you rather people read and understand Ron Paul's book and be more involved and organized for the sake of policy change that would better our society instead of being wrapped up in tabloids about Tiger and his personal life?


     



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  2. #20
    Oh okay, misunderstood your first point, I thought you meant that people who are rich and powerful lose their morals... totally agree with you.

    I would wish they were, but that simply is never going to happen.


     


  3. #21
    Mecca Super-***** dilatedmuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerbMarko View Post
    Ya, that makes for a great role model for up and coming athletes especially young ones..
    lol i hope you are not serious.

    let a playa play lol


    "Yeah I grunt when I get my swole at the gym. So everyone can see how jacked and tan I am." -Brucie Kibbutz

    Tiger Woods Admits Affair!


  4. #22
    Chaos reigns. Line's Avatar
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    Sports = entertainment. In fact, it's probably the premiere form of entertainment these days*. People will pay money to help pass the time, ergo, athletes are a value societal component. Their pay is according to their perceived social benefit, which is higher than that of a scientist. I'm not going to offer any insight to my thoughts on this, because it's hard to weigh wide-spread enjoyment against knowledgeable progression. That said, both do have their benefits, as science is, well, science and ignoring immediacy is impossible in evaluating the success of a people. Humans need to experience happiness, for it gives us a reason to perpetuate in more fields than mere existence.

    *excluding porn


     


  5. #23
    Mecca Super-***** dilatedmuscle's Avatar
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    So, is it true that he is taking an indefinite leave from golf? and if its true, why?


     


  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim290280 View Post
    Be really good at sport and you'll score heaps of hot women.
    Not seeing how kids see it any differently already.
    What score, he paid for pussy, that's sad, he's just a john.


     


  7. #25
    Chaos reigns. Line's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dilatedmuscle View Post
    So, is it true that he is taking an indefinite leave from golf? and if its true, why?
    I think he's trying to save face. I could see his marriage being repaired if he had an affair with one or two women, but after fifty kajillion mistresses came out of the woodwork it's pretty clear the man doesn't want a monogamous relationship with his wife. Now he's being labeled or, rather, allowing himself to be labeled as an addict of several things, which is akin to playing victim. Unfortunately, while he saves his own skin, the PGA tour faces serious financial problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by power View Post
    What score, he paid for pussy, that's sad, he's just a john.
    He paid for some, scored other. The man seems to like his sex.


     


  8. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Line View Post
    Sports = entertainment. In fact, it's probably the premiere form of entertainment these days*. People will pay money to help pass the time, ergo, athletes are a value societal component. Their pay is according to their perceived social benefit, which is higher than that of a scientist. I'm not going to offer any insight to my thoughts on this, because it's hard to weigh wide-spread enjoyment against knowledgeable progression. That said, both do have their benefits, as science is, well, science and ignoring immediacy is impossible in evaluating the success of a people. Humans need to experience happiness, for it gives us a reason to perpetuate in more fields than mere existence.

    *excluding porn

    ON SPORTS AS ENTERTAINMENT AND THE DAMAGE OF CONSUMERISM
    1
    Sports are entertainment, I agree. Because sports are entertainment today. And because of the current propaganda system in America, i am referring to a system that has consumerism at its core. Add to that America's glorification of sport idols expressed by TV and magazines being so wide spread that sports as entertainment add to the damaging effect that consumerism has on American society

    2
    The idea that the more things we buy and the more money and stuff we own the happier we will be as a result of those purchased products is damaging. It is that type of thinking, the type of thinking that these people who play sports professionally are in some way having a positive effect on society that is damaging. Portraying the idea that playing a professional sport is great b/c the athletes that do play professionally get lots of money that allows them to buy lots of things that allows them to have a better life than someone who does not have those things or live "that life style" is a problem. I am not just referring to Tiger Woods I am referring to all professional sports players.


    ON ATHLETE COMPENSATION AND SOCIETY
    If money and consumerism does not victimize the athlete ,and the fans, and money is not an issue then let the athletes get paid the average American salary b/c that is who pays them, the average American. If the athletes really want to benefit society let their excessive salaries go towards something that can benefit the entire society rather just one person. The athlete is already beneficial enough to be doing something they love, assuming they chose their job b/c they really like it as portrayed, and not b/c what it offers them financially. Let athletes excessive salaries go towards education programs for people who do not have money to pay for college or school in general, or some other worthy cause.


     


  9. #27
    Chaos reigns. Line's Avatar
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    Not really the point there, Marx.


     


  10. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Line View Post
    Not really the point there, Marx.
    It is exactly the point. And Marxism does not really apply here b/c the real problem Marx had with capitalism is that a person at the bottom had NO chance of rising to the top when Marx wrote his philosophy, times have changed.

    My point is that consumerism is damaging to the intellectual progression of America b/c of the values that are a part of it. If you care to argue against my idea then attack the assumption i am making. "An intellectual America would be a better place to live." b/c i might be wrong, it is very possible.


     


  11. #29
    Mecca Super-***** dilatedmuscle's Avatar
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    The only way i can see him paying for a chick is for the whole phsycology behind paying for sex. Im sure he doesnt need to pay for any chick but there may have been something about the whole idea behind paying for a product or a service as opposed to having a mutual level of want. Either way, he shouldve gotten a divorce and played the field, nobody wouldve judged him as bad as they are doing now.







    fuck golf


     


  12. #30
    Chaos reigns. Line's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen View Post
    It is exactly the point. And Marxism does not really apply here b/c the real problem Marx had with capitalism is that a person at the bottom had NO chance of rising to the top when Marx wrote his philosophy, times have changed.
    The Marx comment was about conflict theory, not his economic leanings. I'll go through with more detail later.


     


  13. #31
    Mecca V.I.P. Hypocrisy86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Line View Post
    The Marx comment was about conflict theory, not his economic leanings. I'll go through with more detail later.
    Line you are the Master. :linedrunk:
    maybe you should make a blog about this.
    cus' im hearing alot of this crap at work from other co-workers..




  14. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Line View Post
    The Marx comment was about conflict theory, not his economic leanings. I'll go through with more detail later.
    I understand conflict theory and see the relevance of your comment if that is what you were referring to, Marx does get credited for thinking as such.

    The current paradigms should be questioned when the functioning of society is so visibly problematic while being governed by them.


     


  15. #33
    Chaos reigns. Line's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ben
    ON SPORTS AS ENTERTAINMENT AND THE DAMAGE OF CONSUMERISM

    Sports are entertainment, I agree. Because sports are entertainment today.
    As opposed to what? The past? The future? We both seem to be on board with the idea of sports being entertainment but it's not like that's a novel concept. I think our positions differ because you're ignoring the economic opportunities that accrue from the business side of sports entertainment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ben
    And because of the current propaganda system in America, i am referring to a system that has consumerism at its core. Add to that America's glorification of sport idols expressed by TV and magazines being so wide spread that sports as entertainment add to the damaging effect that consumerism has on American society
    All I'm hearing is, "consumerism = bad." Your stance is reading as too vague and myopic for me to really comment further. That is, you're suggesting far too great of a social change without first considering the amount of people employed by professional sports who aren't athletes. The competitors are the center piece of several multi-billion dollar industries and they are compensated handsomely. I don't really see the problem here (and that's without delving into sport as a chief agent of socialization). True meritocracies are impossibly Utopic anyway, as the perception of what constitutes justifiable compensation is largely individualistic and influenced by one's unique culturing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ben
    The idea that the more things we buy and the more money and stuff we own the happier we will be as a result of those purchased products is damaging.
    Overthrow the shackles the bind us!
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ben
    It is that type of thinking, the type of thinking that these people who play sports professionally are in some way having a positive effect on society that is damaging. Portraying the idea that playing a professional sport is great b/c the athletes that do play professionally get lots of money that allows them to buy lots of things that allows them to have a better life than someone who does not have those things or live "that life style" is a problem.
    That's not a problem of the system but of misconception. Athletes make money because their skill sets are valuable to our current society -- it just so happens that they have also been congruent with many societies throughout history. There's a reason for this, in fact, there's several.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ben
    ON ATHLETE COMPENSATION AND SOCIETY

    If money and consumerism does not victimize the athlete ,and the fans, and money is not an issue then let the athletes get paid the average American salary b/c that is who pays them, the average American.
    But why? This is not a socialist society.
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ben
    If the athletes really want to benefit society let their excessive salaries go towards something that can benefit the entire society rather just one person.
    Oh, come now! More people than the athlete benefit from the commodification of sport.
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ben
    The athlete is already beneficial enough to be doing something they love, assuming they chose their job b/c they really like it as portrayed, and not b/c what it offers them financially.
    I'm sure this logic flies in Candy Land, but not here. Limiting people's ability to succeed in the fields in which they excel is too authoritarian for my tastes. People need incentive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ben
    Let athletes excessive salaries go towards education programs for people who do not have money to pay for college or school in general, or some other worthy cause.
    Why not take from other rich?


     


  16. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen View Post
    ON ATHLETE COMPENSATION AND SOCIETY
    If money and consumerism does not victimize the athlete ,and the fans, and money is not an issue then let the athletes get paid the average American salary b/c that is who pays them, the average American. If the athletes really want to benefit society let their excessive salaries go towards something that can benefit the entire society rather just one person. The athlete is already beneficial enough to be doing something they love, assuming they chose their job b/c they really like it as portrayed, and not b/c what it offers them financially. Let athletes excessive salaries go towards education programs for people who do not have money to pay for college or school in general, or some other worthy cause.
    I really dislike this train of thought. If you think athletes make way too much money, then stop watching them, going to their games, and buying their merchandise, it's that simple.

    It's a pretty scary thought to think that the government could determine how much money someone's occupation is worth. So long free society.

    Great post, Line.


     


  17. #35
    [QUOTE=Line;650944]As opposed to what? The past? The future? We both seem to be on board with the idea of sports being entertainment but it's not like that's a novel concept. I think our positions differ because you're ignoring the economic opportunities that accrue from the business side of sports entertainment.

    We are both part of a forum but me being a part of a forum or a fan of bbing does not effect me negatively in any way. Also I acknowledge the economic benefits that exist, and do understand how much money entertainment earns. I just believe that people would be better off spending their time doing something else than partaking in a form of entertainment that furthers the 'more is better' attitude. If not then people should not complain when their government allows for its financial institutions to have the same attitude b/c everyone is out for themselves who cares what the result is as long as Mr. CEO finance makes his 10 million this year everything is ok.


    All I'm hearing is, "consumerism = bad." Your stance is reading as too vague and myopic for me to really comment further. That is, you're suggesting far too great of a social change without first considering the amount of people employed by professional sports who aren't athletes. The competitors are the center piece of several multi-billion dollar industries and they are compensated handsomely. I don't really see the problem here (and that's without delving into sport as a chief agent of socialization). True meritocracies are impossibly Utopic anyway, as the perception of what constitutes justifiable compensation is largely individualistic and influenced by one's unique culturing.

    Lets keep sports entertainment. But lets use the money from excessive salaries that are being used for nothing more than living extravagantly for a beneficial purpose other than excessive consumption. Like buying a ring b/c of infidelity, or buying 4 cars that cost 250,000$ a piece. What real benefit does excessive consumption have for a society, other than the few jobs that it provides which could easily be replaced.

    Overthrow the shackles the bind us!

    Honestly though not everyone is green obsessed, but look at what lower level thinking gets you for social paradigms. America is doing great right now as a result of free markets and free trade, HA, both are magicians who portray freedom but could not be further from it.

    That's not a problem of the system but of misconception. Athletes make money because their skill sets are valuable to our current society -- it just so happens that they have also been congruent with many societies throughout history. There's a reason for this, in fact, there's several.

    I agree. A misconception that stops when you understand more and read more and think more about what is going on around you rather than just being part of what goes on around you without understanding i beyond its surface.


    But why? This is not a socialist society.
    [COLOR="Orange"]B/c it is one way to begin eliminating the idea that more money means a better life style. And seeing to it that sports is one of the bigger arenas that that idea is allowed to rule in why not start w sports. But you know what Joe, As i am writing this i just realized the person I would like to see made better would be the very person fighting against me if any of these things happened. B/c to them the ultimate goal in life are those very ideas whose nature is damaging. It is not the system that should be forcefully changed it is the people allowing the system to exist by paying it that need to be influenced.[COLOR]

    Oh, come now! More people than the athlete benefit from the commodification of sport.

    I'm sure this logic flies in Candy Land, but not here. Limiting people's ability to succeed in the fields in which they excel is too authoritarian for my tastes. People need incentive.

    Why not take from other rich?


     


  18. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironslave View Post
    I really dislike this train of thought. If you think athletes make way too much money, then stop watching them, going to their games, and buying their merchandise, it's that simple.

    It's a pretty scary thought to think that the government could determine how much money someone's occupation is worth. So long free society.

    Great post, Line.
    I dont watch them or support them in any form what so ever that i am aware. Why does the government have to regulate the salaries why couldn't the companies just say this is what we are paying, just like a corporation does to its employees. You don't live in a free society/true democracy now. Does your senator vote the way the majority of their constituents want them to all the time or does your senator vote the way the organizations who paid for their campaign want them to vote? Congress does not represent the people, congress represents the belief of fools and the illusion of democracy.


     




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