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Ketosis Contest/Cut Diet

MrThinker

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Has anyone try a ketosis diet for cutting or contest?
 
BigBen

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Do you have a specific question about them or are you trying to find out general information about ketogenic diets?
 
MrThinker

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Thanks for responding Ben, Basically general information. I wanted to try the Ketosis diet rather then the low carb diet during my weight loss process. Wanted to know is it better then the low carb diet in terms of faster weight loss, preventing my body from going into a catabolic state and energy levels?

In terms of contest is there a loading phrase before preparing for an event on a Ketosis diet, Is it needed and if so do I have to increase my healthy fat intake?

Would there be any difficulty switching back from Ketosis to a normal Protein, Carb and fat diet?
 
dilatedmuscle

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I tried a keto diet... in fact, when i want to drop a few lbs i just manage my carbs. I cannot give up fatty and greasy foods, i find it easier for me to give up carbs. I would go as far as having 2 zero carb days and 1 carb day, carbloading heavily before legs and back workouts. Im no expert and im not answering any of your questions but when i did keto i dropped 3.5 lbs a week for two weeks then i slowly started gaining because i was eating so often and putting on muscle (since my body was in need for extra protein).

I like keto diets but i wouldnt do it long term. If i need to drop weight fast for some reason(have a diet in a week or two) ill keto lol idk about contest prep though.
 
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BigBen

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Thanks for responding Ben, Basically general information. I wanted to try the Ketosis diet rather then the low carb diet during my weight loss process. Wanted to know is it better then the low carb diet in terms of faster weight loss, preventing my body from going into a catabolic state and energy levels?

You should lose more weight faster because theoretically speaking your insulin levels should be lower on a consistent basis while on a ketogenic diet. But I would also expect you to be weaker, lower energy and have less endurance while on a ketogenic diet because you would have much less glycogen stored in your muscles and you are depriving your body of the nutrition, carbohydrates, it is designed to best synthesize energy from. Keto diets are great if you have a problem with food cravings b/c after day 3 or 4 days the food cravings are gone in most people and eating less food becomes easier.

Keto diets do have some draw backs such as the ones I mentioned about energy and strength. Fat metabolism does increase while on a ketogenic diet so do the metabolic by products of fat metabolism. Acetoacetic acid is one of these by products. When acetoacetic acid is decarboxylated it produces two products and both are mildly toxic and both will enter your blood. One is CO2(carbon dioxide) and the other is acetone(C3H60). Both of these substances are acids. CO2 and acetone are both excreted through the lungs. Acetone is also excreted in the urine. Acetone is a ketone, and it is the substance measured in the urine of diabetics who are in abnormal states of metabolism. Acetone is excreted through the lungs also and this is what is responsible for the bad odor on the breath of keto/ low carb dieters. Like I said these substances are mildly toxic, but they can be dangerous in higher amounts. They will disrupt any protein structures they come into contact with in your body. So keeping the levels of CO2 and acetone low is a healthy idea. Your body takes care of CO2 every time you exhale. Pay attention to the ketones in your urine and get keto sticks. I don't offer specific health advice over the internet so go to a dietitian or an MD and discuss the procedures for finding out what acceptable levels of ketones in you urine are and ask them where you may find keto sticks to measure the levels if you do decide to get on a ketogenic diet.


In terms of contest is there a loading phrase before preparing for an event on a Ketosis diet, Is it needed and if so do I have to increase my healthy fat intake?

This is always the part most contest bbers have trouble with and you really cant be sure how you will respond to carbohydrate loading after starving your self of them for such a long time while trying to maintain a high performance out put. I would start with small serving sizes a couple of weeks out from your show, 25grams of very low glycemic, high fiber carbohydrates eaten with protein to see how you respond to them. This way any changes that occur should happen slowly and allow for you to maintain better control over the situation come show time.




Would there be any difficulty switching back from Ketosis to a normal Protein, Carb and fat diet?
This depends on how long you are on a no/low carbohydrate diet. Generally speaking the longer someone is on a low carbohydrate diet the more harsh their rebound is. Puffiness in the limbs, face, and stomach may occur. Some people have digestion issues ranging from bloating and gas to diarrhea the first week or two coming off of a ketogenic diet. The digestion issues are usually related to the body having to start producing a higher amount of enzymes to digest the carbohydrate polymers. Poor digestion, due to issues with enzyme production, can be resolved by taking digestive enzymes and a pro-biotic for the first week or two post ketogenic diet. You might try finding a product with amylase, maltase, lactase, and sucrase in it.

Ben
 
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MrThinker

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Thank you DM and Big Ben the replies or very helpful. Big Ben and others I would like to get your opinion about Dave Palumbo ketosis Contest/Cut diet plan. I found it interesting and was thinking about following his diet plan.

The premise of the diet is high protein (about 1- 1 1/2 gram per pound), moderate fat (about 1/2 g per lb) and low low carbs (no direct sources of carbs). During this diet, the brain goes into ketosis (it uses ketone bodies for energy-- fats) and thus the energy requirements by the body can almost all be supplied by fats (which you'll be taking in plenty of). The only activity that uses carbs will be the weight workout which may use 40grams per workout. You will get these 40g indirectly through the foods you'll be eating. As a backup, the cheat meal you'll be having once per week will provide a storehouse of glycogen (glucose) in case of emergency. So, you see, very little gluconeogenesis in the liver will be occurring. If we keep cortisol low (by
restricting STIMULANTS) we'll ensure that muscle is spared!

HAVE YOUR CHEAT MEAL ON THE SAME DAY EVERY WEEK, last meal of the
day so you dont cheat again.

Fiber helps burn fat! Everyone should take fiber 2x per day. Fiber actually helps increase the absorption of calcium.
When following my diet plan (which includes getting your brain into ketosis), there can be NO starchy carbs eaten!



For a 200lb man:

MEAL #1
5 whole eggs (make sure to buy OMEGA-3 EGGS from the supermarket. They contain virtually NO saturated fat and tons of good OMEGA-3 fats); add another 4 egg whites to this (they don?t need to be the Omega-3 ones; you can use liquid egg whites)

MEAL #2
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoon of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar)

MEAL #3
"Lean Protein Meal": 8oz chicken with 1/2-cup cashew nuts (almonds, or walnuts)

MEAL #4
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoons of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar added)

MEAL #5
"Fatty Protein Meal": 8oz Salmon, Swordfish, or RED MEAT with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar

MEAL #6
SHAKE: 50g Whey with 1 ? tablespoon all natural peanut butter or 4 whole (Omega-3) eggs and 4 extra whites

For a 250lb+ man:
Meal 1 6 whole Omega-3 eggs
Meal 2 8oz chicken with 1/2 cup raw almonds
Meal 3 50g whey with 2 tablespoons all natural peanutbutter
Meal 4 8oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon macadamia nut oil
Meal 5 50 g whey with 2 tablespoon PB
Meal 6 6 whole eggs

Remember, it takes 3-4 days to get into a strong ketosis where your brain is using ketone bodies (fats), instead of carbs, for energy. Be patient.

Many times I'll switch to an alternatiing diet where one day it will be protein/fat......then another protein/vegetables (very little fat). The great thing about the body and fat is that ESSENTIAL FATTY ACIDS can be stored in the muscle for several days, up to 2 weeks......therefore, once an adequate storehouse of Essential Fats are built up, the body can be "tortured" a little and it still won't give up muscle (that's assuming you're still taking in adequate protein. Protein can't be stored).

1oz almonds equals 6g carbs (2 of those grams are fiber) and 2oz equals 12g of carbs.

With the beef meal (any fatty protein meal), you should have the green salad with 1 tablespoon of Olive or Mac oil INSTEAD of the nuts. Only eat the nuts with the LEAN PROTEIN MEAL (chicken, turkey, lean fish)

The best fat sources come from the essential fatty acids-- Omega-6 and Omega-3's. Most of us get plenty of Omega-6s from cooking oils, ect..........however the Omega-3's are harder to get. I recommend WHOLE OMEGA-3 EGGS, FaTTY FISHS like SALMON and SWORDFISH and TUNA and MACKEREL, ALMONDS and WALNUTS have some OMEGA-3's (as well as OMEGA-6s). ANother great fat source is MONOUNSATURATES such as EXTRA VIRGIN OLIVE OIL and MACADAMIA NUT OIL.....they aren't essential but they are great for the metabolism (great source of energy) and they are extremely good for your heart.

You're not getting any indirect sources of carbs (just from the 1 spoonful of PB.... you may want to have at least one 1/3cup nuts meal. Remember, Olive or Macadamia nut oil is predominantly a MONOUNSATURATED FAT (good for the heart, but not essential)........ the nuts, and fish oil have the essential fats in them. Also, with regard to FLAX SEED OIL, the OMEGA-3 Fatty Acids found in them (alpha-linolenic acid) has a very poor conversion to DHA and EPA (Essential Omega-3 intermediates) in the HUMAN........therefore, you're much better off taking in FISH OILS (that already contain DHA/EPA) than FLAX SEED OIL.

Once fat loss slows, I always increase cardio first, then I increase the amount of fat burners (clen, cytomel, lipolyze).........After those other methods are exhausted, only then, do I play with the diet.

Always eat BEFORE lifting........never BETWEEN lifting and cardio.
Artificial Sweetners:
The artificial sweetener itself (eg. aspartame, sucralose) wont cause a problem. It's what some companies complex it with. For example, EQUAL and SPLENDA combine their aspartame and sucrolose with 1g of maltodextrin........whereas, in diet drinks, they don't do that. So, diet drinks are okay, SPLENDA and EQUAL must be used in moderation (STEVIA BALANCE is fine though since they use inulin fiber instead of maltodextrin

Forget using:
-MCT's are a waste when you're dieting. If you're gonna use FATS for an energy source, they might as well serve a function in the body. MCTs are useless. They can only serve as a source of energy!
-Arginine is not going to do anything. It will DO something; just not dramatic.

Cardio:
CARDIO should be performed at a low intensity (under 120bpm heartrate). This will ensure that you use FAT as a fuelsource since as your heartrate increase, carbohydrates begin to become the preferred fuel of choice for the body. When on a low carb diet, you're body will break down muscle and turn that into carbs. Remember, Fat CANNOT be changed into carbs. Therefore, for bodybuilding, the rule of cardio should be LONG DURATION, LOW INTENSITY

never do less than 20 min per session

The BOTTOM LINE is that low intensity cardio (while you might need more of it) ensures that fat is utilized and muscle is spared (especially while on my high protein/moderate fat/low carb diety).

Do you feel the treadmill is better for cardio, or is the bike(stationary or recumbent) just as good? As long as the intensity is LOW, it doesn't matter which piece of equipment you use

Q&A:
Q: Is gluconeogenesis inevitable in your diet?
Dave Palumbo: NO

Q: If so do I need to consume more than 1.5 grams of protein per lb of LBM so as not to lose muscle?
Dave Palumbo: The fat spares the protein....when the brain is in ketosis, the carbohydrate requirements are very very low.

Q: How much (percentage) of my protein intake would be turned into glucose (gluconeogenesis)?
Dave Palumbo: Very little (maybe 10%)

Q: What do you think of submersion in cold water as a means of burning bodyfat (thermogenesis)?
Dave Palumbo: HOCUS POKUS!

Q: How about drinking lots of cold water (I think this was even suggested by Elligton Darden) to help lose bodyfat?
Dave Palumbo: RIDICULOUS

Q: Do you think drinking lots of Green Tea is beneficial to fat loss?
Dave Palumbo: Somewhat helpful.

Q: How much is the ideal dosage of Omega 3 for a 220 lb. individual ?
Dave Palumbo: Try to take in about 9g per day

Q: How many Tbs of peanut butter could I have instead of 1/2 cup of cashewnuts?
Dave Palumbo: 2 tablespoons, two tablespoons of Peanut Butter contains 190 calories and 16 grams of fat (so 1.5 tablespoon equals about 12 grams fat) ...whereas......... 2oz (1/3 cup) almonds (about 40 almonds) = 12g fat

Q: I want to add that if I cant find the omega eggs here locally. Can I use international egg whites and just take an omega supplement?
Dave Palumbo: You can get away with 5 whole eggs (regular ones) once a day........not a big deal. You'll be burning up all that fat anyway.

Q: Whats the max cups # of coffee ( no sugar ) can consume on Dave's diet ?
Dave Palumbo: Try to limit to 2 cups per day.......I realize that towards the end of the diet you may need more to help you get through the day.

Q: If you cook tilapia in macadamon nut oil?do you coun't the oil as your fat for that meal! Depends how much you use.
Dave Palumbo: If you just grease the pan with it, no!

Q: what is the protein,carb and fat ratio for offseason
Dave Palumbo: 50% Protein, 25% fat, 25% carbs

Q: and the ratio for contest prep.
Dave Palumbo:60% protein, 30% fat, 10% carbs
 
BigBen

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Try it out if you like. He has put the diet together very well. I dont necessarily agree with his protein choices. Fish is a complete protein, but we know that protein sources more dense in L-Leucine are better for growth. You want protein sources with all the essential amino acids in adequate amounts and eggs and beef are the top 2 sources of high quality protein in that order. I would get 96/4 lean ground beef. I agree with what he says about fiber as weel except on a diet like this I would be getting fiber in every single meal. If you used spinach raw broccoli you would not have to be concerned about getting any glucose/sugars from these foods. The type of disaccharide in these food choices are called cellubiose and have residue linkakes as follows B-D-glucopyranose-(1->4)-B-D-glucopyranose . What this means is that the o-acetal bond holding the two sugars together has to be broke for the individual glucose monomers to enter your blood bc disaccharides are to large to pass through the intestinal wall. Humans do not have the enzyme to break the o-acetal bond in cellubiose. We will not absorb any glucose from green vegetables unless we break the O-acetal bond "c-o-c" holding the two monosaccharides together. we can do this by adding a weak acid, H20, and heat; cooking them for a while in H2O from your tap which will have carbonic acid (H2CO3) in it bc H20+CO2---> H2CO3, which would break the disaccharide apart and if eaten allow glucose to enter you blood. I know you didnt need to know all of that but repeating it keeps me fresh on my carbohydrate chemistry. =)

If you choose to remove the fish replace the fat lost form the fish with some flax seed oil, it is the highest source of omega-3 fatty acid coming form a plant.

I am not a huge fan of liquid calories ie protein shakes. The transit time and exposure to the intestines is very short when compared to solid foods, but he does have the liquid food coupled with a high amount of fat so that will slow down transit time in the digestion tract some. I noticed he mentioned flax seed oil so I will comment on it. Omega-3 fatty acids, no matter what the food source have a poor conversion to DHA in humans. The O3->EPA is acceptable. Most flax seed products contain DHA and EPA anyways, so do find a flax seed with DHA and EPA if you decide to go that route. If you do not decide to go that route that is fine too.

Glancing at the diet those are the things I noticed worth mentioning, but honestly I would follow the diet the way he has it written out bc it is his diet and that is what you wanted to follow.

Ben
 
MrThinker

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Thank you BigBen I really appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts and insight. I will follow Dave diet and see how it goes.
 
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^^ And of course you'll keep us posted about it :D

It sounds interesting to me, so please, share your progress.
 
MrThinker

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^^ And of course you'll keep us posted about it :D

It sounds interesting to me, so please, share your progress.

Yes Sir, I begin April 1 a Friday 8-12 Wks diet, Ill set up a log at the forum hopefully with photos.
 

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Would there be any difficulty switching back from Ketosis to a normal Protein, Carb and fat diet?

You should have no problems when you change the diet!
Only that you do not lose the fitness gained .. so
You should maintain an adequate intake of all your consumption!
You really should do this with any protocol ketogenic or not!
 
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