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  1. #1
    Mecca Super-***** bodybuilding reputation bodybuilding reputation dilatedmuscle's Avatar
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    Keto Help and Tips wanted.

    Hey guys i have a few questions. I been doing a low carb diet and went from 187-180 in a little over a week. since this post is very long, if you dont have the desire to read through it, i would appreciate if you guys could atleast go over the bolded areas.



    - How long does it take to get into ketosis for someone who does light cardio multiple times a week and heavy weight training?



    -Since you can remain in ketosis aslong as glycogen is depleted in the liver, can you have carbs in a pre workout meal since your going to rely on glycogen for heavy intense lifting there for depleting the glycogen before it settles into the rest of your body? If so, would it be better to take complex carbohydrates as a pre-workout in keto or simple carbohydrates since they metabolize faster and i would have the ability to use them immediately and burn through them during my workout, and what would u guys reccomend as the best pre-workout meal while in a keto diet?



    -How often should one have a carb-up?



    Last week i did a hard zero to low carb diet trying to get into keto starting on monday all the way into saturday. although i may have gotten set back since i may have eaten too many carbs on tuesday which may have set me back and i may only have been in keto for a couple of days. Yesterday i had a high carb day in which i ate a lot of prunes, oatmeal, fiber supplement, and a bit of melon including carbs from cottage cheese and other sources of protein. At night i had pizza and beer as a massive cheat meal since i had been really strict all week and really starting to flatten out.



    What do u guys think about this? i am confident that i ate really well all week except maybe i had too much glycogen in my system from tuesday (carb intake may have been around 50 grams give or take). I am a big time cheater and like to party so giving up partying on Friday and Saturday made me feel somewhat accomplished but i needed a high carb day on sunday. I mostly ate a lot of fibrous carbs because i had been constipated for a while. I know pizza was a terrible choice but i do not regret my decision because i had not had pizza in a while and i wont be eating it again for a while.



    Im planning on doing a extremely low carbohydrate week again this week from monday to friday, having carbs (much less then and much better quality sources then on this past sunday) on saturday and cutting carbs again on sunday. My main concern is wondering if i could treat myself to some carbs pre-workout just to aid my workout and try to avoid a catabolic state as much as possible. I had never been this consistent in a diet, its only been a week but i plan on going hard for a month and go down to around 170 depleted and bulk back up to 190 leaner then ever. The only thing that keeps me going is my desire to begin a bulking phase which i have been wanting to do now for a very long time but been avoiding due to my high ammount of body fat.



    Thanks in advance for the help

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  2. #2
    Mecca Super-***** bodybuilding reputation bodybuilding reputation dilatedmuscle's Avatar
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    Re: Keto Help and Tips wanted.

    This was my day today. Its not perfect but i think it would follow the guidelines to getting into Ketosis.

    Meal 1- 3 eggs, 3 slices of bacon, spinach
    Meal 2- 24 gram protein shake, I know its small but i had to go back to sleep and i didnt double the serving because of the carbs in it.
    Meal 3-two cans of tuna and mayo
    Meal 4- 45-50 grams in a protein shake
    Meal 5- a small peice of steak my mom had bought
    Meal 6- 3 eggs, 4 slices of bacon and spinach
    Meal 7- a chicken breast with mayo and spinach.


    "Yeah I grunt when I get my swole at the gym. So everyone can see how jacked and tan I am." -Brucie Kibbutz

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  3. #3
    Elvira turns me on bodybuilding reputation bodybuilding reputation Natzo's Avatar
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    Re: Keto Help and Tips wanted.

    Quote Originally Posted by dilatedmuscle View Post
    This was my day today. Its not perfect but i think it would follow the guidelines to getting into Ketosis.

    Meal 1- 3 eggs, 3 slices of bacon, spinach
    Meal 2- 24 gram protein shake, I know its small but i had to go back to sleep and i didnt double the serving because of the carbs in it.
    Meal 3-two cans of tuna and mayo
    Meal 4- 45-50 grams in a protein shake
    Meal 5- a small peice of steak my mom had bought
    Meal 6- 3 eggs, 4 slices of bacon and spinach
    Meal 7- a chicken breast with mayo and spinach.
    ok so let's start... I don't recomend Keto diet just because although you're going to burn fat you're going to loose too much muscle too.

    Having said that I would manipulate my carbs according to the scale but I would not reduce them to zero for consecutive days, your body needs carbs to keep the muscle while dieting.

    I'm basing my opinion on this ARTICLE by layne that for me shows exactly how to be ripped while keeping the most possible amount of mass.

    diet objectives:

    # Spare as much muscle mass as possible.
    # Lose as much fat as possible.
    # Not cause the person to lose intensity in the weight room

    Importance Of Carbs While Cutting

    The first reason being that carbohydrates are much more muscle sparing than fats during times of stress when glucose becomes a primary source of fuel (i.e. anaerobic exercise, injury, infection, etc). The muscle sparing effects of carbohydrates occur via several different mechanisms. When the body is in a low energy state, it may try to produce energy by converting amino acids to glucose. Carbohydrates prevent this since they can be easily broken down (and converted if need be) to glucose molecules. Carbohydrates then spare dietary protein from oxidation and these proteins can be stored rather than oxidized.Carbohydrates are also very muscle sparing during exercise. When one lifts heavy weights, the primary pathway that is used to produce ATP (cellular energy currency) is the anaerobic or glycolytic pathway (as the name implies this pathway operates in the absence of oxygen). The only substrate for this pathway is glucose, which can be obtained from dietary carbohydrates or by breaking down glycogen (the cell’s stored form of glucose).


    If one is on a ketogenic or extreme “low carb” diet however, the body will need to utilize another source to synthesize glucose from.

    Since glycogen levels are low on a ketogenic diet, the body will actually convert amino acids to glucose and this glucose will be used in the anaerobic pathway to produce ATP. These amino acids will come from dietary protein, amino acids from the cellular amino acid pool, and from muscle tissue. The latter situation is where one would experience muscle loss. Dietary protein would be sacrificed for ATP production and the depleted amino acid pool would not bode well for protein synthesis rates, thus causing a net loss in muscle mass.

    Muscle Sparing Carbohydrates

    ow insulin levels are good for fat burning. Insulin inhibits lipolytic (fat burning) activity and must be kept low if one wishes to burn a maximal amount of fat. However, the pesky re-occurring theme of maintaining muscle prevents us from totally excluding insulin from our pre-contest diet arsenal, as insulin happens to be one of the most anabolic/anti-catabolic hormones in the body. Insulin binding to the cell membrane causes all sorts of reactions in your body that are beneficial to maintaining and gaining muscle tissue. Insulin inhibits protein breakdown and amino acid oxidation, thus promoting muscle maintenance or gain. Insulin also has an antagonist (inhibitory) affect with regards to several catabolic hormones, including cortisol. Cortisol is a hormone that is released during times of stress such as dieting, lifting, injury, etc. Cortisol produces glucose by breaking down proteins, including muscle tissue. Cortisol is the primary catabolic hormone that is released when one lifts or does any kind of activity.

    Insulin release inhibits the activity of cortisol by preventing its release from the pancreas, thus sparing muscle tissue from cortisol’s catabolic effects.Furthermore, it is interesting to note that long-term exposure of cells to ketones (i.e., ketogenic diet) retard insulin-induced activation of the insulin surface receptor.

    This causes one to become extremely sensitive to carbohydrates when they begin ingesting them again after they finish dieting and could lead to an undesired post diet fat gain. Carbohydrates act to maintain muscle mass while dieting by maintaining cellular osmotic pressure and cell volume. Cell size is an indicator of the “state” that the body is in. When cells are of large volume, it signals that the body is in a fed state. When cell volume is low it signals that the body is in a starved state. Without delving too far into the science behind this, trust me when I say that you would like your body to think it is in a fed state as this will increase the levels of fat burning hormones and anabolic hormones. Cell size also indicates the anabolic state of the cell. When cell volume is high, protein synthesis rates increase. If cell volume drops, then protein synthesis levels drop. It is easy to infer we would like to maintain cell volume, especially when dieting.

    The problem with extreme low carbohydrate diets is they cause severe reduction in cell size.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    Having said that I recommend you utilize the macros given in layne's article to structure your diet.

    bro.. don't use mayo has your fat source.... try something like macadamia nut oil, even olive oil or peanut butter if you insist on a keto diet...


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  4. #4
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Flex's Avatar
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    Re: Keto Help and Tips wanted.

    That diet looks crazy low in calories, and doesn't look like it includes enough good fat sources.




  5. #5
    Mecca Super-***** bodybuilding reputation bodybuilding reputation dilatedmuscle's Avatar
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    Re: Keto Help and Tips wanted.

    Thanks Natzo!

    I used a lot of mayo in the first couple of days getting into keto right now im using two tablespoons of extra virgin olive oil on every one of my meals (including protein shakes). My carbohydrates are around 20 grams a day to make sure i dont slip out of ketosis too early and have to restart the process all over again.


    "Yeah I grunt when I get my swole at the gym. So everyone can see how jacked and tan I am." -Brucie Kibbutz

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  6. #6
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Flex's Avatar
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    Re: Keto Help and Tips wanted.

    You're worrying way too much.

    Many people on keto diets still take in PWO shakes with 30-40 grams of carbs. When you're training on a regular basis, you don't have to worry about slipping out of ketosis so easily.




  7. #7
    Mecca Super-***** bodybuilding reputation bodybuilding reputation dilatedmuscle's Avatar
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    Re: Keto Help and Tips wanted.

    I see what u mean. Youre right but im going to keep it like this just to ensure i dont slip out and then once im on keto for many consecutive days ill start increasing the carbs a bit or ill just have a carb-up meal on the weekend. Currently my PWO shake contains 8-10 grams of carbs

    As far as calories and fats go... do u suggest i eat more ground beef?


    Last edited by dilatedmuscle; 08-24-2011 at 04:54 PM.
    "Yeah I grunt when I get my swole at the gym. So everyone can see how jacked and tan I am." -Brucie Kibbutz

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  8. #8
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Flex's Avatar
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    Re: Keto Help and Tips wanted.

    Keep doing what you're doing with the olive oil, or add in some nuts. More beef would be okay, just don't rely on mayo for your fats.




  9. #9
    Elvira turns me on bodybuilding reputation bodybuilding reputation Natzo's Avatar
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    Re: Keto Help and Tips wanted.

    Yup mayo is a huge no no.

    those 8-10 grams of carbs in PWO aren't doing ****... better save those.

    continue doing what you're doing a fallow Flex's advice especially regarding to fat sources.


    Though you already know my position regarding Keto diets.


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