Biden: Paying higher taxes is "patriotic" for wealthy

[Flex]

well if ahmadinejad says so then it must be true:wutyousay:

I knew you'd bring this up, but you claimed "they're trying to get nukes" and you fail to provide proof. Just like Iraq right? lulz.

supreme leader ali khamanei stated in 2004 that iran would never give up its enrichment of uranium.

So? Uranium is used for alot more than nuclear weapons. Our own CIA said Iran will be incapible of creating nuclear weapons for 10+ years.

 

[Bulkboy]

^^nah im not trying to come off as rude thats for sure, i respect u guys for ur dedication and i like the fact that u take action like that and stand up for your guy, although i dont agree with his political views. i thought u guys were libertarians though?

 

[Bulkboy]

i find it very hard to believe that an energy rich country like iran would develop such technology for any other purpose than weaponry. when they also started delaying and preventing IAEA inspectors they didnt exactly help their own case.

 

[Flex]

i find it very hard to believe that an energy rich country like iran would develop such technology for any other purpose than weaponry. when they also started delaying and preventing IAEA inspectors they didnt exactly help their own case.

Well, forgetting about whether or not their intentions are to create nuclear weapons for second. Why is Israel allowed to illegally posess hundreds of nuclear missiles but not Iran?

I understand your argument Bulkboy, and I'm glad you said Israel should invade rather than us. I also understand why Israel fears Iran's posession of nuclear missiles. But, Ahmadindejad has made it clear that Iran's hate is towards zionists, not Israeli's in general. Zionists use this to make Israeli's believe Iran is their enemy through propaganda.

If Israel wants to invade Iran, they should do it themselves. But, you and I both know the U.S. would get involved. Especially if John McCain is elected, we can count on a permanent surge in troops.

 

[Ironslave]

well, my views does not promote a classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production and property in general, so its just flat out wrong.

It's not pure communism, I never said that, I've simply said you had some communist views. Look at what you're advocating, you're advocating the rich pay higher taxes, right? With the recent bailouts, those taxes are going to be used to pay for outstanding mortgages! If I pay a share of a mortgage on someone's property, does that give me the argument to say I own part of it? Did you read the quote I posted from my friend? (No, i know you didn't, this is just my way of asking you again, to do so.)

u talk about the wealthy being forced to give up their wealth to others, cmon, everyone pays taxes, im willing to bet that most people gladly pay their share of taxes, u may think its too high, but their is a general consensus about the necessity of taxation in order to provide society with services that can not be covered by the private enterprise or market.

Can you honestly name anybody who likes paying taxes Before you take a strawman and bring up "taxes are needed for roads and stuff".. nobody is denying that some taxes are necessary. Are taxes in America, and Canada especially, far far too high? yes.

Private enterprises also provide infinite times better and more efficient service, at a cheaper price. Don't believe me?

Lets look at one of the first personal computers, the IBM PC 5150, which came out around 1980.

The starting price for this was $2,000!! (taking inflation into account, according to an inflation calculator this would cost $4971.67 as of 2007!! (more in 2008, for sure).

Now, here's a new Dell desktop computer, which I'm using at home, that i got for around $600

Which again, adjusting for inflation, according to that calculator, in 1980, it would have cost $241.37 !!!!

This isn't even doubting how much better the computer today is compared to the one in 1980, I'm no computer expert, but I'm willing to bet it's nearly hundreds of times faster, has more memory, more efficient, and so on. So, what would be the reason for this?

The free market. Companies compete, they hire the best staff and they push the best technological advances to design the best product, and they do it at a lower price. Can you imagine where we would be if it was up to the government to provide computers for us? Probably still close to where we were in 1980.

Now, having said all of this, lets apply it to health care. Have the costs of the exact same CAT Scans used in 1980 gone down in price? Fuck no, exactly the opposite. New medical technologies have come out, yet they are more expensive, not less. Yet somehow, people think that the health care industry is one of the only services where government involvement is good, and provides lower costs and better service? That's just plain insanity.


Tell me, what services does government provide, really? Here, i'll list my typical day.

- I wake up, watch some tv (on the tv/cable that I pay for)
- check my internet (again, my computer/internet)
- might go to the gym (I pay the fees to go there)
- eat food (that I bought from the supermarket that i go to)
- go to school (I'm in grad school, which I pay for, and i got accepted into by working for good grades )
- might have sex with some girl (which again, I paid for..... wait, what? ... no, this is the one area i didn't pay for )
- Drive home (my car, using gas i bought)

Anyways, each one of these services (besides the girl) is an industry in which multiple companies compete to provide the best service at the lowest price. I have my choice of tv's, computers, cables, gyms, places to buy food, car company, and so on. It's irrefutable that government involvement in each of these areas would skyrocket prices, and would make them infinite times less efficient.

Anyways, yeah sure, some people who are rich don't mind taxes, whats your point? Maybe those people would then be able to donate money to their friends, family, those who need it? Or, could donate it to a private charity, or efficient organization.

Or, they could just keep it, it's their money.

its not that easy to say the government is all responsible.

Government backing of these companies and a horrible monetary policy, combined with basically providing a safety net for these companies taking stupid risks, giving out lousy policies, and so on, IS responsible. Nobody denies this.

the government had to take action in this situation,

Why? How many analysts are going insane at this? Tons.

i dont think ron paul is aware of what would actually happened if the government didn't do shit.

You mean, the man who has been right all along, the same man who over 5 years ago even predicted the exact companies which this would happen to isn't aware of what would happen?

we would have a recession like we saw during the 30s, and guess what, it was after that recession that people saw that government involvement was necessary. in our globalized economy u cant just sit on the fence letting everything go to hell, because ur dragging everybody else with u. u can infact say that this crisis occured much because the government was not involved enough. this speculation, and the borrowing of money to people who had no chance in hell of paying back unless the prices kept going up forever was irresponsible, and i hope legislation comes that makes this illegal. also, i dont get why the US system is such that if u deliver the key to the house u bought the bank takes over the mortage, if the value of the house goes down and u sell it, then u should be responsible for the rest of the debt, this would make people much more sceptic of borrowing if they cant afford it.

...Really, i'm pretty much in disbelief over how you can believe any of this. Do you realize that Ben Bernanke has admitted that the Federal Reserve and their inflation was the cause of America's great depression?

Government not involved enough?? Get real, government backing these companies and their bad policies is what has caused this! Prices go up as a result of the current fiat system, and it's idiot chairman who prints off money like it's monopoly money.

Bulkboy, I know you mean well at heart, but this is just absurd.

im not sitting here defending the feds though, i do see some of ron pauls points about the printing/borrowing of money, artificially low interest rates and so forth. would love to learn more about it though.

Then go to mises.org, and read.

 

[Tonyk212000]

Thats a rough one to read there IS.

 

[Tech]

Recent research has shown that empirical evidence for globalization of corporate innovation is very limited and as a corollary the market for technologies is shrinking. As a world leader, it's important for America to provide systematic research grants for our scientists. I believe strongly there will always be a need for us to have a well articulated innovation policy with emphasis on human resource development. Thank you.

 

[Pain]

Recent research has shown that empirical evidence for globalization of corporate innovation is very limited and as a corollary the market for technologies is shrinking. As a world leader, it's important for America to provide systematic research grants for our scientists. I believe strongly there will always be a need for us to have a well articulated innovation policy with emphasis on human resource development. Thank you.

I bet jocks stole your lunch money alot in high school. :carduindisguise

 

[Ironslave]

Thats a rough one to read there IS.

Not really, I didn't say anything in depth, really.

 

[Duality]

I was just implying you would have won if you tryed to pwn them instead of pawning them like you tried to do to us

Im sorry you got butt hurt and didnt understand it.

i don't think anyone understood it.


that's what we call self pwnage

 

[Tonyk212000]

i don't think anyone understood it.


that's what we call self pwnage

Sorry you have gotten the ultimate pwnage for telling all of us you were gonna pawn us

 

[Duality]

Originally posted by Ironslave
Tell me, what services does government provide, really? Here, i'll list my typical day.

- I wake up, watch some tv (on the tv/cable that I pay for)
- check my internet (again, my computer/internet)
- might go to the gym (I pay the fees to go there)
- eat food (that I bought from the supermarket that i go to)
- go to school (I'm in grad school, which I pay for, and i got accepted into by working for good grades )
- might have sex with some girl (which again, I paid for..... wait, what? ... no, this is the one area i didn't pay for :carduindisguise)
- Drive home (my car, using gas i bought)

i would just like to say something in regards to this particular statment. i'm short on time and this stuck out to me the most. you have no respect for what the government provides just so you CAN live your life how you please. you failed to mention that when you drive home, you do so on their roads, which they maintain so you can drive where you want when you want. or the supermarket that you go to, which is heavily regualted by government institutions (FDA) so the food you buy is not only wholesome, but sanitary and edible and is satisfactory to your needs. the government for all the evil you claim it does (which i'm not in total disagreement with you there) does a lot in allowing you to live a higher quality of life. i think this statement is pretty elementary in thought process. this is something i would think a middle schooler who hated government would say to me. either you didn't think this through or you selectively chose to ignore these points to better serve your arguement.

 

[Duality]

Sorry you have gotten the ultimate pwnage for telling all of us you were gonna pawn us

can i just claim a typo there? yeah that works. that was a typo i meant to type pwn :methman: it's all good.

 

[Tonyk212000]

i would just like to say something in regards to this particular statment. i'm short on time and this stuck out to me the most. you have no respect for what the government provides just so you CAN live your life how you please. you failed to mention that when you drive home, you do so on their roads, which they maintain so you can drive where you want when you want. or the supermarket that you go to, which is heavily regualted by government institutions (FDA) so the food you buy is not only wholesome, but sanitary and edible and is satisfactory to your needs. the government for all the evil you claim it does (which i'm not in total disagreement with you their) does a lot in allowing you to live a higher quality of life. i think this statement is pretty elementary in thought process. this is something i would think a middle schooler who hated government would say to me. either you didn't think this through or you selectively chose to ignore these points to better server your arguement.

I agree with this post alot . IS didnt mention any other variables that he uses in his daily life. Great Post!

 

[pegasus]

i would just like to say something in regards to this particular statment. i'm short on time and this stuck out to me the most. you have no respect for what the government provides just so you CAN live your life how you please. you failed to mention that when you drive home, you do so on their roads, which they maintain so you can drive where you want when you want. or the supermarket that you go to, which is heavily regualted by government institutions (FDA) so the food you buy is not only wholesome, but sanitary and edible and is satisfactory to your needs. the government for all the evil you claim it does (which i'm not in total disagreement with you there) does a lot in allowing you to live a higher quality of life. i think this statement is pretty elementary in thought process. this is something i would think a middle schooler who hated government would say to me. either you didn't think this through or you selectively chose to ignore these points to better serve your arguement.

IS is not saying that there should be no tax, he just opposes unfair taxes, like the income tax.
IS paid tax when he put gas in his car, which goes towards building and maintaining of the road. He also pays a number of other taxes like property tax etc. What you fail to realise is that non of the tax collected as income tax goes toward paying for any of these things that you listed, but instead is used to pay the interest owed by the government to the federal bank. In regards to the FDA, I think its a stupid organisation and should be a lot smaller than it is.

 

[Duality]

IS is not saying that there should be no tax, he just opposes unfair taxes, like the income tax.
IS paid tax when he put gas in his car, which goes towards building and maintaining of the road. He also pays a number of other taxes like property tax etc. What you fail to realise is that non of the tax collected as income tax goes toward paying for any of these things that you listed, but instead is used to pay the interest owed by the government to the federal bank. In regards to the FDA, I think its a stupid organisation and should be a lot smaller than it is.

yes and i understand that but with that tax money they then facilitate the building of things such as roads or organizations like the FDA. you can't say they do nothing beneficial for us and IS's post basically made it sound like he would be able to do all those things without government. simply not true.

i was unaware the the arguement IS was making was against the income tax because yes none of that money is used for these things. my point wasn't one in favor of income tax, more one of stop belittling what the government does for you in aiding in your quality of life.

 

[Ironslave]

IS is not saying that there should be no tax, he just opposes unfair taxes, like the income tax.
IS paid tax when he put gas in his car, which goes towards building and maintaining of the road. He also pays a number of other taxes like property tax etc. What you fail to realise is that non of the tax collected as income tax goes toward paying for any of these things that you listed, but instead is used to pay the interest owed by the government to the federal bank. In regards to the FDA, I think its a stupid organisation and should be a lot smaller than it is.

As always, thank you.


Sigh, once again, people seem to selectively ignore certain aspects of posts.

Can you honestly name anybody who likes paying taxes Before you take a strawman and bring up "taxes are needed for roads and stuff".. nobody is denying that some taxes are necessary. Are taxes in America, and Canada especially, far far too high? yes.

Now, lets look at Duality's post.

you failed to mention that when you drive home, you do so on their roads, which they maintain so you can drive where you want when you want

That is what you call "pawning" yourself.

 

[Tonyk212000]

I pretty much got "pawned" to for agreeing too

 

[pegasus]

yes and i understand that but with that tax money they then facilitate the building of things such as roads or organizations like the FDA. you can't say they do nothing beneficial for us and IS's post basically made it sound like he would be able to do all those things without government. simply not true.

i was unaware the the arguement IS was making was against the income tax because yes none of that money is used for these things. my point wasn't one in favor of income tax, more one of stop belittling what the government does for you in aiding in your quality of life.

I don't know if you've watched this video or not, but I highly recommend you doing so

 

[Tonyk212000]

I don't know if you've watched this extremely long movie that is 2 hours long or not, but I highly recommend you doing so

Fixed