What you don't know about Israel

[phaseman]

NEARLY everything you’ve been led to believe about Gaza is wrong. Below are a few essential points that seem to be missing from the conversation, much of which has taken place in the press, about Israel’s attack on the Gaza Strip.

THE GAZANS Most of the people living in Gaza are not there by choice. The majority of the 1.5 million people crammed into the roughly 140 square miles of the Gaza Strip belong to families that came from towns and villages outside Gaza like Ashkelon and Beersheba. They were driven to Gaza by the Israeli Army in 1948.

THE OCCUPATION The Gazans have lived under Israeli occupation since the Six-Day War in 1967. Israel is still widely considered to be an occupying power, even though it removed its troops and settlers from the strip in 2005. Israel still controls access to the area, imports and exports, and the movement of people in and out. Israel has control over Gaza’s air space and sea coast, and its forces enter the area at will. As the occupying power, Israel has the responsibility under the Fourth Geneva Convention to see to the welfare of the civilian population of the Gaza Strip.

THE BLOCKADE Israel’s blockade of the strip, with the support of the United States and the European Union, has grown increasingly stringent since Hamas won the Palestinian Legislative Council elections in January 2006. Fuel, electricity, imports, exports and the movement of people in and out of the Strip have been slowly choked off, leading to life-threatening problems of sanitation, health, water supply and transportation.
The blockade has subjected many to unemployment, penury and malnutrition. This amounts to the collective punishment — with the tacit support of the United States — of a civilian population for exercising its democratic rights.

THE CEASE-FIRE Lifting the blockade, along with a cessation of rocket fire, was one of the key terms of the June cease-fire between Israel and Hamas. This accord led to a reduction in rockets fired from Gaza from hundreds in May and June to a total of less than 20 in the subsequent four months (according to Israeli government figures). The cease-fire broke down when Israeli forces launched major air and ground attacks in early November; six Hamas operatives were reported killed.

WAR CRIMES The targeting of civilians, whether by Hamas or by Israel, is potentially a war crime. Every human life is precious. But the numbers speak for themselves: Nearly 700 Palestinians, most of them civilians, have been killed since the conflict broke out at the end of last year. In contrast, there have been around a dozen Israelis killed, many of them soldiers. Negotiation is a much more effective way to deal with rockets and other forms of violence. This might have been able to happen had Israel fulfilled the terms of the June cease-fire and lifted its blockade of the Gaza Strip.
This war on the people of Gaza isn’t really about rockets. Nor is it about “restoring Israel’s deterrence,” as the Israeli press might have you believe. Far more revealing are the words of Moshe Yaalon, then the Israeli Defense Forces chief of staff, in 2002: “The Palestinians must be made to understand in the deepest recesses of their consciousness that they are a defeated people.

 

[TJ]

Where did you find this information?

 

[Braaq]

No doubt that Israel has committed some of these "war crimes" you list, however, your post is extremely biased. Numerous treaty attempts have been attempted, but the Palestinians have abruptly destroyed every attempt at peace. The Israelis are willing to live in coexistence with the Palestinians, the Palestinians are the ones who are not willing to budge on Israels existence.
You can make the argument that Israel took the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights after the Six Day war. However, creating much needed buffer zones between you and the countries that surround you and want you wiped off the face of the planet is a move any country would take.
The Palestinians are forced into the Gaza strip by not just the Israelis but the surrounding Arab nations as well. They chose to not admit them into their population to bring the worlds attention against Israel and to breed anti-Israel militant groups. So don't just point the finger at Israel, to do so would be very biased and just plain wrong.

 

[Samoan-Z]

No doubt that Israel has committed some of these "war crimes" you list, however, your post is extremely biased. Numerous treaty attempts have been attempted, but the Palestinians have abruptly destroyed every attempt at peace. The Israelis are willing to live in coexistence with the Palestinians, the Palestinians are the ones who are not willing to budge on Israels existence.
You can make the argument that Israel took the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights after the Six Day war. However, creating much needed buffer zones between you and the countries that surround you and want you wiped off the face of the planet is a move any country would take.
The Palestinians are forced into the Gaza strip by not just the Israelis but the surrounding Arab nations as well. They chose to not admit them into their population to bring the worlds attention against Israel and to breed anti-Israel militant groups. So don't just point the finger at Israel, to do so would be very biased and just plain wrong.

+1

 

[Pioneer]

No doubt that Israel has committed some of these "war crimes" you list, however, your post is extremely biased. Numerous treaty attempts have been attempted, but the Palestinians have abruptly destroyed every attempt at peace.

Yea your right, cause the Palestinians should accept an agreement where Israel gets to steal more of their land, and still have control of Palestines trade routes. Perhaps Palestine does not agree to these terms of "Peace" as they are mostly Pro-Israel and gives very little to the people of Palestine. Also how can Palestine ever have a "intelligent" and proper functioning govt. to make smart treaty deals when Israel keeps kidnaping their politicians.

The Israelis are willing to live in coexistence with the Palestinians, the Palestinians are the ones who are not willing to budge on Israels existence.

Yep they sure are, as long as they get more land that what was given to them under the UN resolution and they can keep Jerusalem as their land, which is land that is so far away from what they were given under the UN resolution but they managed to steal all the land around it to get to it and make it part of their country and your right we should just turn our heads ignore it and accept it right? Also Israel does not face UN inspections you think they would accept it if Palestine got that as well? NO WAY, but why does Israel exempt itself from UN inspections? How can you not see that the rules and restrictions applied to other Middle Eastern countries are not applied to Israel?

You can make the argument that Israel took the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights after the Six Day war.

You mean you can state the fact.

However, creating much needed buffer zones between you and the countries that surround you and want you wiped off the face of the planet is a move any country would take.

Yes this buffer is smart but if Israel wants it, it should be using the out skirts of its own land allocated to them from the UN Resolution rather than stealing more and more land and making the situation worse and making it one of the main issues and reasons why Palestines do the only the only thing they can afford to do to fight back and thats to fire those rockets

The Palestinians are forced into the Gaza strip by not just the Israelis but the surrounding Arab nations as well. They chose to not admit them into their population to bring the worlds attention against Israel and to breed anti-Israel militant groups. So don't just point the finger at Israel, to do so would be very biased and just plain wrong.

Don't know if that is true but I wouldn't be suprised. But I don't really think he was pointing the finger at Israel but merely doing what I am doing in highlighting what Israel is doing cause face the facts we don't hear about what Israel is doing only what Palestine does, which leads people to these biased Pro-Israel stance without looking at both sides of the story. I know I may seem biased but its just cause we hear about what Palestine does but not what Israel does so just trying to shed some light on that.

 

[El Freako]

Phaseman with another win!

 

[Pioneer]

Phaseman with another win!

Lol I'm surprised he made this thread after his previous thread.


http://www.musclemecca.com/showthread.php/better-41460.html?t=41460

 

[El Freako]

Lol I'm surprised he made this thread after his previous thread.


http://www.musclemecca.com/showthread.php/better-41460.html?t=41460

Stupid is as stupid does...

 

[Braaq]

Yea your right, cause the Palestinians should accept an agreement where Israel gets to steal more of their land, and still have control of Palestines trade routes. Perhaps Palestine does not agree to these terms of "Peace" as they are mostly Pro-Israel and gives very little to the people of Palestine. Also how can Palestine ever have a "intelligent" and proper functioning govt. to make smart treaty deals when Israel keeps kidnaping their politicians.

Wow, your so incredibly biased your posts are completely moot. Israel is willing to work with moderate government group like Fatah, rather than a radicalist group like Hamas who's solemn goal is to completely get rid of Israel. Since the death of Arafat and the PLO with him there have been no negotiations for peace other than with Fatah.
Israel never stole any land, majority of the land was bought lawfully by Zionists. The land of Palestine, was originally the "land of the Jews" with nomadic Arab tribes which became the "Palestinians". So I don't know where you get that they are stealing land. After the Six Day War, in which they won, they took land. If that is stealing then I suppose you agree with Mexican's who say we stole their land after the Mexican-American War?

Yep they sure are, as long as they get more land that what was given to them under the UN resolution and they can keep Jerusalem as their land, which is land that is so far away from what they were given under the UN resolution but they managed to steal all the land around it to get to it and make it part of their country and your right we should just turn our heads ignore it and accept it right? Also Israel does not face UN inspections you think they would accept it if Palestine got that as well? NO WAY, but why does Israel exempt itself from UN inspections? How can you not see that the rules and restrictions applied to other Middle Eastern countries are not applied to Israel?

Dude, your so naive to think that anyone gives a shit what the UN says or does? It is our puppet to control the world with "support" and WE don't even listen to them. We support actions that break UN resolutions all the time. The fact is, Israel won the war that gave them the land. They could have taken much more seeing as how Jordan, Egypt and Syria where on their knees after their military's were obliterated.

You mean you can state the fact.

I can, and why should they give it back? Should we give the west back to Mexico? So can we justify our Manifest Destiny, by killing men, woman and children in Mexico for it but not Israel? I think you should check up on your history buddy, it is how countries have expanded their borders since time began. Is it right? ehh.. maybe not morally.

Yes this buffer is smart but if Israel wants it, it should be using the out skirts of its own land allocated to them from the UN Resolution rather than stealing more and more land and making the situation worse and making it one of the main issues and reasons why Palestines do the only the only thing they can afford to do to fight back and thats to fire those rockets

Yes, and that is real intelligent of them. Fire rockets on a country that can wipe you out, knowing that they are going to end up killing woman and children. Yeah, they are so heroic hiding behind the civilians while terrible ol' Israel is defending its citizens like ANY other country would do in the same situation. Get a clue man and open your eyes.

Don't know if that is true but I wouldn't be suprised. But I don't really think he was pointing the finger at Israel but merely doing what I am doing in highlighting what Israel is doing cause face the facts we don't hear about what Israel is doing only what Palestine does, which leads people to these biased Pro-Israel stance without looking at both sides of the story. I know I may seem biased but its just cause we hear about what Palestine does but not what Israel does so just trying to shed some light on that.

It is true, I suggest you take a class on the subject as I have. We do hear about what Israel does all the time, why do you think there is so much Anti-Israel sentiment? All I ever seem to read about is what Israel is doing to Gaza, and then you look at the reasons. Remember there are two sides to ever story, the Palestinians are bringing hell upon themselves by supporting a group like Hamas and allowing them to be used as human shields.

 

[Duality]

Wow, your so incredibly biased your posts are completely moot. Israel is willing to work with moderate government group like Fatah, rather than a radicalist group like Hamas who's solemn goal is to completely get rid of Israel. Since the death of Arafat and the PLO with him there have been no negotiations for peace other than with Fatah.
Israel never stole any land, majority of the land was bought lawfully by Zionists. The land of Palestine, was originally the "land of the Jews" with nomadic Arab tribes which became the "Palestinians". So I don't know where you get that they are stealing land. After the Six Day War, in which they won, they took land. If that is stealing then I suppose you agree with Mexican's who say we stole their land after the Mexican-American War?





Dude, your so naive to think that anyone gives a shit what the UN says or does? It is our puppet to control the world with "support" and WE don't even listen to them. We support actions that break UN resolutions all the time. The fact is, Israel won the war that gave them the land. They could have taken much more seeing as how Jordan, Egypt and Syria where on their knees after their military's were obliterated.



I can, and why should they give it back? Should we give the west back to Mexico? So can we justify our Manifest Destiny, by killing men, woman and children in Mexico for it but not Israel? I think you should check up on your history buddy, it is how countries have expanded their borders since time began. Is it right? ehh.. maybe not morally.



Yes, and that is real intelligent of them. Fire rockets on a country that can wipe you out, knowing that they are going to end up killing woman and children. Yeah, they are so heroic hiding behind the civilians while terrible ol' Israel is defending its citizens like ANY other country would do in the same situation. Get a clue man and open your eyes.





It is true, I suggest you take a class on the subject as I have. We do hear about what Israel does all the time, why do you think there is so much Anti-Israel sentiment? All I ever seem to read about is what Israel is doing to Gaza, and then you look at the reasons. Remember there are two sides to ever story, the Palestinians are bringing hell upon themselves by supporting a group like Hamas and allowing them to be used as human shields.

complete and total braaq pwnage. braaq, feel free to take any land you like away from pioneer, you have won.

but seriously though really good post.

 

[Samoan-Z]

I like said about what braaq said before

 

[atomic strenght]

don't believe everything you heard.most organizations on the american terrorist list aren't really terrorist.you believed what bush said about weapons of massive destruction in irak and it proved all wrong.what is true is that Israel really possesses nuclear and biological weapons and it used some prohibited weapons in lebanon and in gaza.Hamas was elected by people in a democratic elections and Israel managed to take them down.

 

[Adam23]

don't believe everything you heard.most organizations on the american terrorist list aren't really terrorist.you believed what bush said about weapons of massive destruction in irak and it proved all wrong.what is true is that Israel really possesses nuclear and biological weapons and it used some prohibited weapons in lebanon and in gaza.Hamas was elected by people in a democratic elections and Israel managed to take them down.

exactly

 

[Pioneer]

I would rather look at this from the point of view that the world has changed in the last couple of hundred years and that the human race is more tolerable of others and even understanding that we are all the same. We have gotten a better sense of justice and equality. And I think its through this point of view we should be looking at the issue. You are of course correct in what you state about all throughout history people have fought wars and taken land. But I think we should acknowledge, accept and embrace the fact the world has and is changing and we should be working to maintain this change to our perception of justice and equality. So you saying countries have taken land before yes that's true but instead of living of the values and mis-guided point of views of those who fought wars in the past we should looking at issues from this day onwards from a kind of a clean slate. I am in no way stating we should forget the past because we have to look at the past to evaluate the future but instead when we see things like Israel taking land from Palestine in present time after (although like you said no one cares about what the UN says) a UN Resolution handed Israel its entitlement to that land we should be trying to resolve this issue based on today's thinking. How about Israel gives back the stolen land and stops blocking of trade routes and see what happens I mean its proven time and time again that its land stealing and blockades are not stopping the attacks only making it worse. And this of course applies to Palestine as well they really need to sit down and think of how they can establish a proper functioning govt. and country. But its just that I think that's hard for them as their cant even live life's of value when every couple of months they will go through a peroid of waking up every morning to see their family dead. The people of Palestine have been through too much without any support from the rest of the world, they will never be able to make proper peace talks unless Israel gives them back stolen land and stops blocking of vital supplies. Israel retreating is the only way the Palestinians can go to the negotiate table feeling they can come out of it with something.

 

[Braaq]

I would rather look at this from the point of view that the world has changed in the last couple of hundred years and that the human race is more tolerable of others and even understanding that we are all the same. We have gotten a better sense of justice and equality. And I think its through this point of view we should be looking at the issue. You are of course correct in what you state about all throughout history people have fought wars and taken land. But I think we should acknowledge, accept and embrace the fact the world has and is changing and we should be working to maintain this change to our perception of justice and equality. So you saying countries have taken land before yes that's true but instead of living of the values and mis-guided point of views of those who fought wars in the past we should looking at issues from this day onwards from a kind of a clean slate. I am in no way stating we should forget the past because we have to look at the past to evaluate the future but instead when we see things like Israel taking land from Palestine in present time after (although like you said no one cares about what the UN says) a UN Resolution handed Israel its entitlement to that land we should be trying to resolve this issue based on today's thinking. How about Israel gives back the stolen land and stops blocking of trade routes and see what happens I mean its proven time and time again that its land stealing and blockades are not stopping the attacks only making it worse. And this of course applies to Palestine as well they really need to sit down and think of how they can establish a proper functioning govt. and country. But its just that I think that's hard for them as their cant even live life's of value when every couple of months they will go through a peroid of waking up every morning to see their family dead. The people of Palestine have been through too much without any support from the rest of the world, they will never be able to make proper peace talks unless Israel gives them back stolen land and stops blocking of vital supplies. Israel retreating is the only way the Palestinians can go to the negotiate table feeling they can come out of it with something.

I can agree with that, I am pretty neutral on the subject actually. I was just pressing the issue that it can be argued both ways. Both sides need to take several steps back and work together to coexist peacefully and equally. I believe this would include us not getting our nose into it because it is seen as us just maintaining our interests rather than the prosperity of both peoples. I do not see this happening with Hamas, but they were the elected party by the people. I can only see this if the Palestinian's back Fatah and let Abbas do his thing.

 

[Pioneer]

I can agree with that, I am pretty neutral on the subject actually. I was just pressing the issue that it can be argued both ways. Both sides need to take several steps back and work together to coexist peacefully and equally. I believe this would include us not getting our nose into it because it is seen as us just maintaining our interests rather than the prosperity of both peoples. I do not see this happening with Hamas, but they were the elected party by the people. I can only see this if the Palestinian's back Fatah and let Abbas do his thing.

Yeah, but for the Palestinians to vote with intelligence rather than hate, Israel needs to retreat and the rest of the world needs to show it cares and playing an unbiased role in helping solve the problems and this needs to be done with leading both countries to talks, not spending billions upon billions of dollars funding one country and ignoring the other. If this happens and the Palestinians still keep voting blindly with hatred to elect useless and pointless govts. then ....:angrydude:

By the way Braaq thanks for posting intelligent posts, and I will concede you have made me think about things a bit more. I guess the main reason I'm saying thanks is because there are people who seem to be posting a lot of stupid I guess in a way 'red neck' and close minded point of views and are blinded by their stupidity. Its great that we can have a debate without it turning completely ugly.

 

[Adam23]

Yeah, but for the Palestinians to vote with intelligence rather than hate, Israel needs to retreat and the rest of the world needs to show it cares and playing an unbiased role in helping solve the problems and this needs to be done with leading both countries to talks, not spending billions upon billions of dollars funding one country and ignoring the other. If this happens and the Palestinians still keep voting blindly with hatred to elect useless and pointless govts. then ....:angrydude:

By the way Braaq thanks for posting intelligent posts, and I will concede you have made me think about things a bit more. I guess the main reason I'm saying thanks is because there are people who seem to be posting a lot of stupid I guess in a way 'red neck' and close minded point of views and are blinded by their stupidity. Its great that we can have a debate without it turning completely ugly.

good post bro