Latpull down form and technique

[DriDDeRz]

when i do the exercise infront with the normal width bar - i feel nothing at all but when doing the other exercises below, all seems fine



i can feel my back when doing the following below tho
Behind neck pulldowns
close grip pulldowns
D-Hand grip front
underhand grip
i have no problems doing chin ups, can smash few sets of 8 - 10 easy.


but i should def be throwing in the chinups here and there

 

[El Freako]

Do you do pullups and chinups?

 

[DriDDeRz]

Do you do pullups and chinups?

rarely pull ups

but chin ups once in a while

 

[El Freako]

Pullups are by far my best lat pumper. Why don't you do them?

 

[miamiracing]

try to use straps for pulldowns. this way you won't think about your grip and holding on to the bar, you can focus on pushing your elbows down.. its more a push thing than pulling. its all in your mind..

i really like to use this bar, gives you insane pump if you have nice contraction

 

[Zigurd]

Pullups are hard.

Not for me. I can do 31.

Pull-downs are the only thing I can do to increase strength instead of endurance. Unless you give me another option.

 

[Ironslave]

Not sure if I'd say that pulldowns are "lame", they have their place. I like chins for sure, but there are things you can do on the pulldowns which are difficult to do on chins. (ie, many people turn a chin up into a glorified pelvic thrust, you don't want to shift tension away from the working muscle and just swing). While compound lifts are certainly king, you want to maximize this by doing compound lifts while the same time maximizing form. (a reason why so few people get nothing out of bent rows, their form is crap).

I have a semi theory about one of the best ways one could improve their back size is to take straps and hang on a chinup bar (preferably with a weight around the waist, or a dumbell in the feet) for as long as possible several times a day.

 

[Ironslave]

Most people who claim they can't do them because they are so big are also lame. All that supposed extra muscle hasn't been used to garner more strength to be able to do chinups. More muscle should equal more strength, so it really is a cop-out for heavy guys (especially when there are vids like the one Ben posted).

But isn't the point of bodybuilding to build muscle? I do understand the point you are making, just think you're being a bit too dogmatic about it. If this was an athletic training forum, I'd agree, but the target audience needs to be kept in mind.

 

[miamiracing]

I have a semi theory about one of the best ways one could improve their back size is to take straps and hang on a chinup bar (preferably with a weight around the waist, or a dumbell in the feet) for as long as possible several times a day.

what is that gonna do? kinda like stretching you out i guess.. makes the muscle "bigger''

 

[tim290280]

Not sure if I'd say that pulldowns are "lame", they have their place. I like chins for sure, but there are things you can do on the pulldowns which are difficult to do on chins. (ie, many people turn a chin up into a glorified pelvic thrust, you don't want to shift tension away from the working muscle and just swing). While compound lifts are certainly king, you want to maximize this by doing compound lifts while the same time maximizing form. (a reason why so few people get nothing out of bent rows, their form is crap).

Kipping pullups FTW

I stand by labelling pulldowns lame. But I will concede that they have a place and are particularly good for hitting lower and middle traps properly that may be missed by pullups (due to form or technique issues).

I just don't think that they are anything other than a secondary exercise and yet this discussion refers to them as a primary. People will get more muscle growth out of chins, rows and deads than they ever will out of a pulldown. I'm yet to see a pulldown weight stack that holds as much as I do chinups with (BW+weight), so how does that work for a big guy tieing weight to themselves?

I have a semi theory about one of the best ways one could improve their back size is to take straps and hang on a chinup bar (preferably with a weight around the waist, or a dumbell in the feet) for as long as possible several times a day.

Isometrics!! Nice. Of course the temptation then is to just hang rather than hold, which is terrible on the shoulder joint. Good idea though that I've seen some guys do.

But isn't the point of bodybuilding to build muscle? I do understand the point you are making, just think you're being a bit too dogmatic about it. If this was an athletic training forum, I'd agree, but the target audience needs to be kept in mind.

Probably am being too black and white, but the point still stands. The loading that can be achieved in a pullup is greater. This gives greater chance for hypertrophy. End of story.

Yes a pulldown can be superior as pullups are harder for people to do correctly. But that is in and of itself a completely different point. Any exercise not done correctly makes itself crappy (like the bent row you mentioned). Now I'm against the bent over row because most people use ordinary form and it places the low back at risk as a result. The pullup doesn't have that same downside. It does have the advantage that you will get better able to do proper pullups due to strength increases (albeit once form is tightened and muscles targeted correctly), doesn't have the injury potential and is still a great muscle builder.

One of the bigger guys I've met used to do pullups. His form was great, the weight he tied to himself was half what I used (but overall he lifted far more). He commented that he'd had to start doing proper pullups because the pulldown didn't have enough weight for him to use. So I feel that most are using pulldowns is an excuse people use for sucking at pullups. Sucking at an exercise isn't a reason to stop or not do it, it is a reason to get better at it (given of course that it is an excellent compound exercise, I suck at squatting on a bosu ball doesn't mean I should try getting better at that).

But I know that we disagree when I get a bit black and white on these sorts of things. Progressive exercise is where it is at, everything else is just details. If they get better at pulldowns and grow then great, but I think we can both agree that pullups would be a better way to chase growth.

 

[Ironslave]

what is that gonna do? kinda like stretching you out i guess.. makes the muscle "bigger''

Several aspects come to mind:

1) empirical evidence of the physiques of gymnasts and their incredible lat/shoulder/arm development, and these guys don't even train for hypertrophy.



2) animal studies which have noted muscle hyperplasia (actual increase in muscle fiber number, not just size) in rats/cats achieved this usually through extreme and prolonged stretching.

3) (probably most importantly).... Somewhat related to number 2, but there is a plethora of evidence demonstrating at the cellular level the benefits of "stretch" in activating signaling associated with muscle hypertrophy. This is a reason why preacher curls are a great exercise for the biceps, and ass-to-grass squats kicks the hell out of almost parallel squats (let's not bring up any names, of course :icon_ninja. If desired, some of the keeners could check out this study which discusses mechanisms of stretch-induced growth signaling.


Again, this is just a theory I have, but I think there is logic to it.

 

[Achilles]

^^So extreme stretches ala doggcrap ftw?

 

[Ironslave]

^^So extreme stretches ala doggcrap ftw?

Depends.. I don't believe the time that these stretches are used is sufficient enough to evoke much response. Second, I'd be careful with some of these exercises which can lead to injury. (ie, a db fly stretch)

 

[Bulkboy]

Not for me. I can do 31.

for real? thats insane man, i can barely get 15:/

could u post a vid or something, curious to see how ur form is, u go all the way up and down?

 

[El Freako]

Not for me. I can do 31.

Max?

 

[Big_Guns_Lance]

Pull-downs are the only thing I can do to increase strength instead of endurance. Unless you give me another option.

Weighted pull-ups?

 

[MrChewiebitums]

how can you say they dont train for hypertrophy..... you cannot just walk up to a set of rings and begin practicing.
isnt what they do just another form of holding say a dumbell i parallel to the floor? IE a form of achieving hypertrophy just in an unconventional way?
doesnt time under tension encourage the muscle to grow?
i dont see why you have given them special attention, they are just getting to hypertrophy in an unconventional way, well unconventional to those who only think classical style training builds muscle

and could you expand a little bit on that preachers being a great exer..... i dont see why its great and the others arent. PM if you want.. to not derail this thread

 

[El Freako]

how can you say they dont train for hypertrophy..... you cannot just walk up to a set of rings and begin practicing.
isnt what they do just another form of holding say a dumbell i parallel to the floor? IE a form of achieving hypertrophy just in an unconventional way?
doesnt time under tension encourage the muscle to grow?
i dont see why you have given them special attention, they are just getting to hypertrophy in an unconventional way, well unconventional to those who only think classical style training builds muscle

But they aren't specifically training to get big muscles, that it just a by-product of their training. They train for a sport, not for hypertrophy.

 

[MrChewiebitums]

yes but training for their sport involves hypertrophy, therefore if they train a lot then hypertrophy occurs more frequently.

 

[El Freako]

yes but training for their sport involves hypertrophy, therefore if they train a lot then hypertrophy occurs more frequently.

So what's your point?

IS never said their training didn't cause hypertrophy, he merely said they didn't train for the purpose of hypertrophy, which they don't. A big heavy gymnast is useless, they need to be strong, fast and flexible.