Creatine+ fatburners

[PrinceVegeta]

I am gonna start a serious diet/cardio regimen in 3 weeks follwoing my 6 weeks of 5x5...

Im gonna start a fat burner and was thinking of using creatine to help me keep my muscles and strength but..

Dont fatburners make you releasr your waterweight, and creatine makes your muscles hold water....i know they are not the same...but would it be wise to do this or wont it work?

 

[Ironslave]

It's not something to worry about. The only logical reason I've seen for not taking creatine on a diet would be a very small possible shift in substrate utilization at rest, from fat burning, to carbohydrate burning, but this is nothing to worry about unless you've got to crash diet for a show in 4 weeks or something.

Keep taking creatine, and stay hydrated.



Creatine supplementation influences substrate utilization at rest.
1: J Appl Physiol. 2002 Dec;93(6):2018-22. Epub 2002 Aug 16.

The influence of creatine supplementation on substrate utilization during rest was investigated using a double-blind crossover design. Ten active men participated in 12 wk of weight training and were given creatine and placebo (20 g/day for 4 days, then 2 g/day for 17 days) in two trials separated by a 4-wk washout. Body composition, substrate utilization, and strength were assessed after weeks 2, 5, 9, and 12. Maximal isometric contraction [1 repetition maximum (RM)] leg press increased significantly (P < 0.05) after both treatments, but 1-RM bench press was increased (33 +/- 8 kg, P < 0.05) only after creatine. Total body mass increased (1.6 +/- 0.5 kg, P < 0.05) after creatine but not after placebo. Significant (P < 0.05) increases in fat-free mass were found after creatine and placebo supplementation (1.9 +/- 0.8 and 2.2 +/- 0.7 kg, respectively). Fat mass did not change significantly with creatine but decreased after the placebo trial (-2.4 +/- 0.8 kg, P < 0.05). Carbohydrate oxidation was increased by creatine (8.9 +/- 4.0%, P < 0.05), whereas there was a trend for increased respiratory exchange ratio after creatine supplementation (0.03 +/- 0.01, P = 0.07). Changes in substrate oxidation may influence the inhibition of fat mass loss associated with creatine after weight training.

 

[PrinceVegeta]

Thanx IS, this was a great help!

 

[Achilles]

Isnt the caffeine in the fatburners decreasing the effect of the creatine?

 

[PrinceVegeta]

Why would you say that? Does caffeine affect creatine intake?

 

[philosopher]

Why would you say that? Does caffeine affect creatine intake?

It will probaly not lead to a huge reduction in the effectiveness of creatine supplementation

 

[PrinceVegeta]

^^ thanx philo..im really only stacking the too so i can keep as much muscle as possible while in a low cal diet to lose some weight!

 

[philosopher]

^^ thanx philo..im really only stacking the too so i can keep as much muscle as possible while in a low cal diet to lose some weight!

Well he has a point. He might be talking about this study

Caffeine counteracts the ergogenic action of muscle creatine loading
K. Vandenberghe, N. Gillis, M. Van Leemputte, P. Van Hecke, F. Vanstapel and P. Hespel
Faculty of Physical Education and Physiotherapy, Department of Kinesiology, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Belgium.

This study aimed to compare the effects of oral creatine (Cr) supplementation with creatine supplementation in combination with caffeine (Cr+C) on muscle phosphocreatine (PCr) level and performance in healthy male volunteers (n = 9). Before and after 6 days of placebo, Cr (0.5 g x kg-1 x day-1), or Cr (0.5 g x kg-1 x day-1) + C (5 mg x kg-1 x day-1) supplementation, 31P-nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy of the gastrocnemius muscle and a maximal intermittent exercise fatigue test of the knee extensors on an isokinetic dynamometer were performed. The exercise consisted of three consecutive maximal isometric contractions and three interval series of 90, 80, and 50 maximal voluntary contractions performed with a rest interval of 2 min between the series. Muscle ATP concentration remained constant over the three experimental conditions. Cr and Cr+C increased (P < 0.05) muscle PCr concentration by 4-6%. Dynamic torque production, however, was increased by 10-23% (P < 0.05) by Cr but was not changed by Cr+C. Torque improvement during Cr was most prominent immediately after the 2-min rest between the exercise bouts. The data show that Cr supplementation elevates muscle PCr concentration and markedly improves performance during intense intermittent exercise. This ergogenic effect, however, is completely eliminated by caffeine intake.

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/80/2/452

 

[allstar]

One of the primary ways creatine works is by loading the muscles with water—this is why consuming large amounts of water is such a critical part of effective creatine supplementation. On the other hand, the caffeine has a diuretic effect—it draws water out of the muscles and the body. So if you take your creatine simultaneous with caffeine, you’ll tend to cancel out the cell-volumizing effects of the creatine.

 

[cuts]

i found this might be useful

Creatine and Fat Burners.

l said before that it is not good at all to take Creatine with Caffeine, but there is something more here. Think about one of the most major functions that Creatine is doing. lt causes water retention inside the muscle cell, right? Now think about one of the most major actions of Caffeine! (If you wonder why l am talking about Caffeine again, keep in mind that at least 90% of fat burners contain Caffeine or "Guarana" which is basically Caffeine in herbal form.) lt causes frequent urination. So from one side you have to drink more water because of Creatine, but at the same time you have to go to bathroom more often. The final result? Very possible dehydration and muscle cramping.

You want to lose some unnecessary fat pounds ladies and gentlemen? Fine, take your fat burner, reduce your calories, and increase your cardio! You want to gain some muscle pounds? Take a good Creatine supplement, and increase your food consumption! You want to get more muscles, but at the same time you want to lose some unnecessary pounds? Sorry, out of the question! Decide what you want to do first, and don't believe the hype: "l got 10 muscle pounds in 8 weeks, and at the same time l lost 20 fat pounds"! (Yeah right!)


http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/johnforb.htm

 

[tim290280]

Some good posts here guys!

Just something to think about:

Common Dietary Supplements for Weight Loss

ROBERT B. SAPER, M.D., M.P.H., DAVID M. EISENBERG, M.D., and
RUSSELL S. PHILLIPS, M.D., Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts

Over-the-counter dietary supplements to treat obesity appeal to many patients who desire a "magic bullet" for weight loss. Asking overweight patients about their use of weight-loss supplements and understanding the evidence for the efficacy, safety, and quality of these supplements are critical when counseling patients regarding weight loss. A schema for whether physicians should recommend, caution, or discourage use of a particular weight-loss supplement is presented in this article. More than 50 individual dietary supplements and more than 125 commercial combination products are available for weight loss. Currently, no weight-loss supplements meet criteria for recommended use. Although evidence of modest weight loss secondary to ephedra-caffeine ingestion exists, potentially serious adverse effects have led the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to ban the sale of these products. Chromium is a popular weight-loss supplement, but its efficacy and long-term safety are uncertain. Guar gum and chitosan appear to be ineffective; therefore, use of these products should be discouraged. Because of insufficient or conflicting evidence regarding the efficacy of conjugated linoleic acid, ginseng, glucomannan, green tea, hydroxycitric acid, l-carnitine, psyllium, pyruvate, and St. John's wort in weight loss, physicians should caution patients about the use of these supplements and closely monitor those who choose to use these products. (Am Fam Physician 2004;70:1731-38. Copyright© 2004 American Academy of Family Physicians.)

In 2000, an estimated 30.5 percent of adults were obese (i.e., had a body mass index [BMI] greater than 30 kg per m2)1 and 15.5 percent of adolescents were overweight (BMI of 25 to 30 kg per m2).2 Given the medical and psychosocial impact of being overweight, as well as the difficulty in making sustained improvements in diet and physical activity, it is not surprising that patients often turn to over-the-counter (OTC) proprietary weight-loss products containing single or multiple dietary supplements (e.g., herbs, vitamins, minerals, amino acids).

A multi-state survey3 in 1998 found that 7 percent of adults used OTC weight-loss supplements, with the greatest use noted among young obese women (28 percent). Retail sales of weight-loss supplements were estimated to be more than $1.3 billion in 2001.4 Metabolife 356, an ephedra-containing combination supplement, was the top-selling diet supplement with $70 million in sales, representing a 127 percent increase from sales in 2000.4

These supplements appeal to the desire for a "magic bullet" that is less demanding than special diets and increased physical activity. They are available without a prescription and often advertise remarkable benefits. Patients also may be attracted to them because they are marketed as "natural," which may be interpreted by some (albeit inaccurately) as an assurance of safety and efficacy.

More than 50 individual dietary supplements and 125 proprietary products are listed in the Natural Medicines Comprehensive Database as commonly being used for weight loss.5 Individual supplements found in at least five commercial products (Table 25,6) are discussed in this review, according to their purported mechanism of action. Of note, approximately one half of the most common individual supplements used in weight-loss products listed in Table 2 have not been studied in randomized controlled trials (RCTs) in humans.


TABLE 2
Common Dietary Supplements Used for Weight Loss, Classified According to Purported Mechanism*†

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Increase energy expenditure
Ephedra (56)
Bitter orange (49)
Guarana (34)
Caffeine (27)
Country mallow (13)
Yerba maté (9)
Modulate carbohydrate metabolism
Chromium (117)
Ginseng (20)

Increase satiety
Guar gum (10)
Glucomannan (7)
Psyllium (6)

Increase fat oxidation or reduce fat synthesis
l-carnitine (49)
Hydroxycitric acid (43)
Green tea (42)
Vitamin B5 (18)
Licorice (17)
Conjugated linoleic acid (7)
Pyruvate (6)

Block dietary fat absorption
Chitosan (16)
Increase water elimination
Dandelion (15)
Cascara (5)

Enhance mood
St. John's wort (19)

Miscellaneous or unspecified
Laminaria (18)
Spirulina [also known as blue-green algae] (13)
Guggul (10)
Apple cider vinegar (7)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Supplements Purported to Increase Energy Expenditure
ephedra alkaloids and caffeine compounds

Ephedra sinica (or Ma huang in Chinese) is a shrub native to China and Mongolia that contains sympathomimetic compounds referred to as ephedra alkaloids. Bitter orange and country mallow contain related chemicals. Ephedra alkaloids commonly are combined with caffeine or botanical sources of caffeine (e.g., guarana, yerba maté) for weight loss.7 A recent meta-analysis8 of RCTs showed a weight loss of 0.9 kg (2 lb) more per month for ephedra-containing supplements compared with placebo. However, no long-term data (i.e., greater than six months) on efficacy were available.

Using adverse event data from 50 trials of ephedra, a 2.2- to 3.6-fold increase in the odds of psychiatric, autonomic, cardiovascular, and gastrointestinal symptoms was estimated.8 Another review9 of adverse events possibly associated with ephedra use included 87 reports to the FDA MedWatch program between June 1997 and March 1999. These reports included episodes of hypertension, arrhythmias, myocardial infarction, stroke, and seizures. Ten events led to death and 13 yielded permanent disability. Of these 23 reports, nine occurred at recommended dosages of ephedra in persons without significant preexisting cardiovascular risk factors.9

Ephedra products comprised only 0.8 percent of all dietary supplement sales in 2001, yet they were responsible for 64 percent of all herb-related adverse events reported to U.S. Poison Control Centers during the same year.10 Although ephedra-caffeine combinations may be effective for modest weight loss, safety issues motivated the FDA to ban their sale in April 2004.11

Supplements Purported to Modulate Carbohydrate Metabolism
chromium and ginseng

Chromium deficiency is associated with hyperglycemia, hyperinsulinemia, hypertriglyceridemia, and low levels of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol. Chromium is thought to play a role in carbohydrate and lipid metabolism, potentially influencing weight and body composition.12 However, data on healthy persons without diabetes do not support this theory, and data on patients with diabetes are inconclusive.13

Most weight-loss supplements use chromium picolinate in daily dosages of 200 to 400 mcg. The results of three RCTs14-16 that studied the role of chromium in obesity did not show any differences in weight loss between the treatment and placebo groups. However, drawing conclusions from these studies is difficult because of their small size (n = 15 to 36). Although short-term trials using chromium picolinate did not report significant adverse effects,17 there are theoretical concerns that this form of chromium could generate free-radical damage.18 Rhabdomyolysis and renal failure, possibly related to ingestion of more than 1,000 mcg daily of chromium picolinate, have been reported.19,20 Because of the lack of large, well-designed studies, the efficacy of chromium for weight loss and its long-term safety profile remain uncertain.

Although preliminary data suggest that ginseng (Panax ginseng) may improve glucose tolerance,21 no RCTs in humans have shown greater weight loss with ginseng compared with placebo.

Supplements Purported to Increase Satiety
glucomannan, psyllium, and guar gum

Numerous weight-loss products contain sources of soluble fiber, which theoretically could absorb water within the gut, causing increased satiety and lower caloric intake. Fiber also may improve control of diabetes and hyperlipidemia, two common comorbidities in patients with obesity. Examples include guar gum (derived from the Indian cluster bean, Cyamopsis tetragonolobus), glucomannan (Amorphophallus konjac), and psyllium (derived from the seed husk of Plantago psyllium).

Although guar gum is relatively safe, a meta-analysis22 of 11 RCTs of guar gum versus placebo for weight loss showed no benefit. Three RCTs23-25 suggest that glucomannan in dosages of 3 to 4 g per day may be well tolerated and yield modest weight loss. However, these trials were small (n = 20 to 50) and had methodologic limitations. Although psyllium improved glucose and lipid parameters significantly more than placebo in 125 overweight patients with type 2 diabetes, there were no differences in weight loss.26

Supplements Purported to Increase Fat Oxidation or Reduce Fat Synthesis
hydroxycitric acid

Hydroxycitric acid (HCA) is derived from the Malabar tamarind tropical fruit (Garcinia cambogia) native to India. HCA has been found to inhibit mitochondrial citrate lyase, leading to decreased acetyl coenzyme A production and decreased fatty acid synthesis.27 A 12-week RCT28 of mildly overweight women (n = 89; mean BMI of 28.6 kg per m2) reported a 1.3 kg (2 lb, 14 oz) greater weight loss in women who received 750 mg of HCA per day versus placebo. In contrast, an RCT29 comparing a different formulation of HCA at 1,500 mg per day and placebo in 135 men and women with a higher average BMI (31.2 kg per m2) showed no differences in BMI or adverse events. Although HCA appears to be well tolerated, the evidence for efficacy currently is contradictory.

conjugated linoleic acid

Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) refers to a family of trans-fatty acids that have been found to reduce fat deposition in obese mice, possibly through increased fat oxidation and decreased triglyceride uptake in adipose tissue.30 A 12-week RCT31 of 60 patients using 3.4 to 6.8 g per day of CLA reported no change in BMI. Persons taking CLA reported mild to moderate gastrointestinal symptoms. Currently, no human data support the efficacy of CLA in weight-loss products.

green tea, licorice, pyruvate, vitamin b5, and l-carnitine

In one study,32 green tea increased fat oxidation and thermogenesis in 10 patients, but the study was not designed to assess weight loss. Licorice reduced body fat mass without changing BMI in 15 persons of normal weight.33 However, licorice has been reported to cause pseudoaldosteronism, hypertension, and hypokalemia.34 Six weeks of pyruvate, in a dosage of 6 g per day, was associated with a weight loss of 1.2 kg (2 lb, 10 oz), compared with placebo.35 Although vitamin B5 has been postulated to cause weight loss,36 no human trials support this. Similarly, no trials demonstrate that l-carnitine is effective for weight loss.

Supplements Purported to Block Dietary Fat Absorption
chitosan

Chitosan, derived from chitin found in crustacean shells, is a positively charged polymer thought to prevent fat absorption by binding negatively charged fat molecules within the intestinal lumen. A meta-analysis37 of five RCTs that evaluated chitosan and placebo for weight loss showed a greater mean weight reduction for chitosan (3.3 kg [7 lb, 4 oz]) over placebo. All of the studies were conducted by the same team of investigators and several methodologic concerns were noted.

Subsequently, three other researchers reported well-designed RCTs38-40 that failed to show any differences in weight loss. Furthermore, healthy persons taking chitosan have not shown clinically significant increases in fecal fat excretion.41 Given the totality of the evidence, chitosan appears to be safe in short-term studies, but is likely ineffective for weight loss.

Supplements Purported to Increase Water Elimination
Dandelion (Taraxacum officinale) appears to have diuretic activity and cascara (Rhamnus purshiana) acts as a laxative.42 Neither of these herbs has been studied specifically for weight loss in humans. Regarding safety, long-term use of these supplements theoretically could cause adverse effects similar to those of conventional diuretics and laxatives (e.g., dehydration, electrolyte abnormalities).43

Other Common Supplements Used for Weight Loss
Although botanical remedies for depression such as St. John's wort (Hypericum perforatum) often are found in weight-loss products, no data support their role in weight loss. Laminaria (kelp) has not been studied for weight loss. Spirulina (also known as blue-green algae) contains phenylalanine, which is purported to inhibit appetite. In 1981, the FDA declared spirulina ineffective for weight loss,44 and no subsequent studies to the contrary have been published. Guggul (derived from the myrrh tree, Commiphora mukul) and apple cider vinegar, which contains various vitamins and minerals, have not been studied for weight loss.

Advising the Patient About Weight-Loss Supplements

Criteria adapted from a recent review45 can be used to develop clinical recommendations for each supplement. If there is strong evidence for a product's quality, safety, and efficacy, it may be reasonable to recommend that product and closely monitor the patient. No supplements discussed in this review meet these criteria, however.

In contrast, it would be appropriate to discourage use of products when there is strong evidence for lack of quality, safety, or efficacy. For example, use of products that contain ephedra should be actively discouraged because of serious safety concerns. Chitosan appears to be ineffective for weight loss and should also be discouraged. The use of guar gum for weight loss should be discouraged because of its lack of efficacy.

For products that do not fall into the categories to recommend or to discourage use because of insufficient or contradictory evidence, physicians should caution their patients about the risks and benefits of using the product given the uncertainty in safety, efficacy, and/or quality control. Chromium, CLA, ginseng, glucomannan, green tea, HCA, l-carnitine, psyllium, pyruvate, and St. John's wort fall into this category. If a patient chooses to use one of these supplements, the physician should monitor the patient closely for adverse effects as well as benefit. Table 3 8,13-18,21-26,28,29,31-35,37-41,44,45 summarizes the evidence for quality, safety, and efficacy for each supplement discussed and provides a suggested clinical stance.


TABLE 3
Evidence Summary and Clinical Stance for Individual Weight-Loss Supplementse

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evidence summary

Apple cider vinegar
qualtiy: Uncertain
safety: Uncertain
efficacy: Uncertain•
stance: Caution and monitor

Cascara
quality: Present‡
safety: Uncertain
efficacy: Uncertain•
stance: Caution and monitor

Chitosan37-41
quality: Uncertain
safety: Present
efficacy: Absent
stance: Discourage

Chromium13-18
quality: Present‡
safety: Uncertain
efficacy: Uncertain§
stance: Caution and monitor

Conjugated linoleic acid31
quality: Uncertain
safety: Uncertain
efficacy: Uncertain§
stance: Caution and monitor

Dandelion
quality: Uncertain
safety: Uncertain
efficacy: Uncertain•
stance: Caution and monitor

Ephedra alkaloid-caffeine combinations8||
quality: Uncertain
safety: Absent
efficacy: Present
stance: Discourage

Ginseng21
Uncertain
Uncertain
Uncertain•
Caution and monitor

Glucomannan23-25
Uncertain
Present
Uncertain¶
Caution and monitor

Green tea32
Uncertain
Present**
Uncertain•
Caution and monitor

Guar gum22
Uncertain
Present
Absent
Discourage••

Guggul
Uncertain
Uncertain
Uncertain•
Caution and monitor

Hydroxycitric acid28-29
Uncertain
Uncertain
Uncertain‡‡
Caution and monitor

Laminaria
Uncertain
Uncertain
Uncertain
Caution and monitor

l-carnitine
Present‡
Present
Uncertain•
Caution and monitor

Licorice33-34
Uncertain
Uncertain
Uncertain•
Caution and monitor

Psyllium26
Present‡
Present
Uncertain•
Caution and monitor

Pyruvate35
Uncertain
Uncertain
Uncertain¶
Caution and monitor

Spirulina (also known as
blue-green algae)
Uncertain
Uncertain
Absent§§
Discourage

St. John's wort
Uncertain
Uncertain
Uncertain•
Caution and monitor

Vitamin B5
Present‡
Present
Uncertain•
Caution and monitor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*-If there is strong evidence for the presence of quality, safety, and efficacy, then the suggested clinical stance is to recommend. If there is strong evidence for the absence of quality, safety, or efficacy, then the suggested clinical stance is to discourage. If the evidence does not meet the criteria for recommend or discourage (i.e., evidence for quality, safety, or efficacy is uncertain with no strong evidence for absence of quality, safety, or efficacy), then the suggested clinical stance is to provide caution and monitor. (Clinical stance schema adapted from Weiger, et al.45).

†-No or few human weight-loss trials.

‡-Good manufacturing practice formulations are available.

§-Most or all trials do not show weight loss, but the small number of trials and subjects precludes definitive efficacy conclusions.

||-Also includes country mallow, bitter orange, guarana, yerba maté.

¶-Most or all trials demonstrate weight loss, but the small number of trials and subjects precludes definitive conclusions.

**-If taken in appropriate dosages (the equivalent of < 5 cups of green tea daily).

††-Discourage refers specifically to the use of guar gum as an antiobesity agent only. Guar gum and other fiber agents may have a role, however, in obese patients for the treatment of comorbidities such as diabetes, glucose intolerance, and/or hyperlipidemia.26

‡‡-Efficacy data are contradictory.

§§-Based on the negative findings of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration44 and no subsequent studies to the contrary.

Information from references 8, 13 through 18, 21 through 26, 28, 29, 31 through 35, 37 through 41, 44, and 45.

TABLE 4
Evidence-based Resources on Dietary Supplements for Physicians

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Natural Medicines Comprehensive Database (http://www.naturaldatabase.com)

Natural Standard (http://www.naturalstandard.com)

E-pocrates (http://www.epocrates.com)

ConsumerLab.com (http://www.consumerlabs.com)

Fugh-Berman A. The five-minute herb & dietary supplement consult. Philadelphia: Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, 2003.

Rotblatt M, Ziment I. Evidence-based herbal medicine. Philadelphia: Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, 2001.

Strength of Recommendation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Key clinical recommendations
Label
References

Ephedra is somewhat effective for weight loss, but is unsafe; therefore, use of this supplement should be discouraged.
A
8-11

Chitosan and guar gum are ineffective for weight loss, and their use should be discouraged.
A
22, 38-40

Patients should be cautioned regarding the use of chromium, ginseng, glucomannan, green tea, hydroxycitric acid, l-carnitine, psyllium, pyruvate, St. John's wort, and conjugated linoleic acid because the evidence regarding their efficacy and safety for weight loss is unclear.
B
14-16, 19, 20, 23-36

The Authors

ROBERT B. SAPER, M.D., M.P.H., recently completed the Harvard Medical School Complementary and Alternative Medicine Research and Faculty Development Fellowship funded by the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine of the National Institutes of Health. Dr. Saper is currently the director of integrative medicine and assistant professor in the Department of Family Medicine at Boston University. He earned his medical degree from Harvard Medical School, Boston, and completed a family practice residency at the University of California, San Francisco.

DAVID M. EISENBERG, M.D., is the Bernard Osher associate professor of medicine and director of the Division for Research and Education in Complementary and Integrative Medical Therapies at Harvard Medical School. Dr. Eisenberg received his medical degree from Harvard Medical School and completed a residency in internal medicine at the University of California, Los Angeles.

RUSSELL S. PHILLIPS, M.D., is professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School and chief of the Division of General Medicine and Primary Care at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Boston. Dr. Phillips directs the Harvard Medical School Complementary and Alternative Medicine Research and Faculty Development Fellowship. He received his medical degree from Stanford Medical School, Palo Alto, Calif., and completed a residency in internal medicine at Beth Israel Hospital, Boston.

Address correspondence to Robert B. Saper, M.D., M.P.H., director of integrative medicine, Department of Family Medicine, Boston University School of Medicine, One Boston Medical Center Place, Dowling 5 South, Boston, MA 02118-2393 (e-mail: robert.saper@bmc.org). Reprints are not available from the authors.

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26. Rodriguez-Moran M, Guerrero-Romero F, Lazcano-Burciaga G. Lipid- and glucose-lowering efficacy of Plantago Psyllium in type II diabetes. J Diabetes Complications 1998;12:273-8.

27. Lowenstein JM. Effect of (-)-hydroxycitrate on fatty acid synthesis by rat liver in vivo. J Biol Chem 1971;246:629-32.

28. Mattes RD, Bormann L. Effects of (-)-hydroxycitric acid on appetitive variables. Physiol Behav 2000;71:87-94.

29. Heymsfield SB, Allison DB, Vasselli JR, Pietrobelli A, Greenfield D, Nunez C. Garcinia cambogia (hydroxycitric acid) as a potential antiobesity agent: a randomized controlled trial. JAMA 1998;280:1596-600.

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In other words most of these fat burners and the like are borderline junk, or in the case of caffeine, overpriced. Now I'm sure caffeine is great, but your receptors build up and the efficacy of caffeine long term is null in fact you are likely to need it to maintain homeostasis. Not ideal.

 

[Adam23]

^^^good info !!! thanks tim

 

[PrinceVegeta]

Great article tim!!

@ cuts: I understand what u are getting at...but creatine fills the MUSCLE with water and fatburners release water fron under the SKIN...and in order for the water under the skin to leave the body u ahve to drink a lot of water, this will also help to signal your body that u are providing it with enough water that he doesnt ened to hold on to extra water...so i dont think the statement masde by that guy is correct...or im wrong?