The web's most illogical arguments

[jwill0214]

Irony? Strange that would be describing you not me. I'm actually running several research trials at the moment, and am working on several research papers for submission to journals.

You post dancing videos and pretend to have an MSc. Comfy armchair you have there Jorn?

You know what they say about people trying to get research papers in journals?

 

[tim290280]

You know what they say about people trying to get research papers in journals?

Watch out for the peer review process

 

[jornT]

This is gonna be long, but maybe we are actually getting somewhere this time

Strange I seem to remember that you asked a question of me, I answered it, you said I was wrong, I posted a link to a paper, you then had a hissy fit, I was too busy to be bothered with you and you kept bombarding me with interruptions.

Your memory is clearly lacking. Read the actual topic:

http://www.musclemecca.com/showthread.php/jorn-annoying-4376.html

I don't see anything about me asking you a training/nutrition related questions (Ironslave was my to go to guy at that time anyway, so it makes little sense) and I see even less about a paper that you supposedly sent me. What I do see, is that you conform in your second post, that the conversation was about totally diffrent stuff. In contrast, note how my post in this and that topic are consistent, I wonder why?

I will say one thing for you Jorn, I was a bit childish at the time about the way I dealt with you. In hindsight I put that down to the stress I was under.

Stress is a weak excuse imo. I have been under stress ever since, so you should forgive me. Are we good bro's now again? See how it does not work like that?

However, for the first time, you actually do not play the the innocent victem and actually admit a personal flaw, this could get us somewhere!

Now onto the nice guy thing: you haven't really every tried to help or enlighten anyone here, all you have done is your trademark "disagree with me = gay" posts or similar unsupported statements. You have disdain for helping anyone, you hate it when someone asks you to actually support your statements of "Wrong" by the dismissive nature of your replies "I don't have to prove myself as I have said he is wrong and I know he is".

Do you know where the disagree with me = gay came from? Maybe it was for your time. It certainly was for the time of Braaq and everyone who wasn't on BBD, so it might be nice to tell a little bit of history.

There was a time that I was one of the good bro's. The constructive bro's. I encouraged people in in their logs, I tried to asnwer questions as good as possible etc.

Then Rocky and I started a 'rap dis battle' in the misc (can you imagine with my english :roflol) Anyway, I always hammerd on how gay this and that was of Rocky (this was all in good fun, remeber I was one of the 'inner circle bro's). So, then one day, rocky gave advice in a training/nutrition topic, and I replied with 'gay'. He responed, and I responed again with 'disagree with me = gay'. That's how it became a trademark line. As my knowledge grew (I sucked up everything Ironslave had to say like a sponge and I became second only to him) I started gaving GOOD advice, but people wouldn't listen to it. Inertia is very strong on internet, and especially among bodybuilders. Anyway, I got somewhat frustrated with that, and started to make less informative posts. Why bother when people won't listen anyway right? I still posted 'disagree with me = gay' however. And newer member didn't get the joke, didn't see anything constructive from me and thought I was just a hater or something. In this way I slowly changed from good bro, to not so good bro. That didn't really bothered me though, because as my knowledge grew, it grew harder for me to encourgage my previous bro's in their logs etc, because they where doing stupid shit (note that I learned everything I could at that time, and couldn't really understand why others didn't do the same). Anyway, as time went on, things got worse, I started flaming my previous bro's for fun etc.

Then things got really bad when you opened that topic. You can find me a jackass all you want (because I surely am on the internet), but my knowlegde is solid. You did not prove me wrong many times. I am WAY out of your league, even back then. (note that in that topic I had no trouble to acknowledge the fact you knew more about anatomy than me. Also note that I worshiped Ironslave, which proves that learning more was all I cared about, not looking good on the internet. I really doubt that about you. I really do)

You just posted this in the soreness topic:

If I say I'm not a guru would that make you happy? I doubt it because I've never claimed to be, ever.

No. Alot of people on this forum know less than you, but I do not flame them non stop. I do that, because you made it personal. You pretended to know more than me. What would make me happy, is you admitting you where wrong. And you really realize it. I have no problem with you having a training column. Maybe you really do try to help people as much as possible ,although I really think your e-status is conscious, or unsciously very importanted for you. I do not even care about that, if it helps people that's two birds with one stone.

Just don't pretend that you know knew or know more than me, proved me many times wrong etc.

Go on. Help people. Help me. Post some useful stuff that could actually stop people wasting their time and help them train longer, healthier and with better results. Stop being such a childish fucking brat.

I decided quite a while back to keep everything I know for myself, for the simple reason that I'm going to be a sport nutritionist for top athletes. I want them to have acces to knowledge which is not simply avaible on internet but really have an advantage over others. That is just a business move. For you this is just a hobby, so it's different.

 

[Ironslave]

My only comment is this:

I decided quite a while back to keep everything I know for myself, for the simple reason that I'm going to be a sport nutritionist for top athletes. I want them to have acces to knowledge which is not simply avaible on internet but really have an advantage over others. That is just a businessmove. For you this is just a hobby, so it's different.

Is not a good business move. If you plan to be a sports nutritionist then you need to get your name out there, and the internet is a great way to do it. Ever hear of Layne Norton?

 

[jornT]

Is not a good business move. If you plan to be a sports nutritionist then you need to get your name out there, and the internet is a great way to do it. Ever hear of Layne Norton?

I don't want to start my own business, but work with the Dutch Olympic athletes. So it's not about getting my name out there, it is about being the best at what I do and getting that job.

Therefore, I want my knowledge only avaible to that select group of athletes.

 

[Pickle]

I don't want to start my own business, but work with the Dutch Olympic athletes. So it's not about getting my name out there, it is about being the best at what I do and getting that job.

Therefore, I want my knowledge only avaible to that select group of athletes.

might i suggest specialising in the dutch syncronised swimming? you could do their diet nutrition and choreography. BOOOM

White has mated?

 

[jornT]

might i suggest specialising in the dutch syncronised swimming? you could do their diet nutrition and choreography. BOOOM

Hahahaha

You got me there

 

[Natzo]

I don't want to start my own business, but work with the Dutch Olympic athletes. So it's not about getting my name out there, it is about being the best at what I do and getting that job.

Therefore, I want my knowledge only avaible to that select group of athletes.

I sense the Dutch are going to fail in the Olympics..

 

[Pickle]

^ that is just plain rude

 

[dilatedmuscle]

what is all this i hear about jorn dancing.... where can i see this?

... Wait im starting to remember a video of someone dancine while not facing the camera while being in different locations... was that him?

 

[tim290280]

This is gonna be long, but maybe we are actually getting somewhere this time

Your memory is clearly lacking. Read the actual topic:

http://www.musclemecca.com/showthread.php/jorn-annoying-4376.html

I have read the posts, I've even told people to go read them for themselves. I could have deleted the entire thread or edited it.

I don't see anything about me asking you a training/nutrition related questions (Ironslave was my to go to guy at that time anyway, so it makes little sense) and I see even less about a paper that you supposedly sent me. What I do see, is that you conform in your second post, that the conversation was about totally diffrent stuff. In contrast, note how my post in this and that topic are consistent, I wonder why?

Consistent??
At the time I really should have pulled the MSN log to show just how abusive and annoying you were. Interesting point, I stopped using MSN because of you.

Stress is a weak excuse imo. I have been under stress ever since, so you should forgive me. Are we good bro's now again? See how it does not work like that?

Never said it as an excuse, I said that looking back I handled things in a manner I would not normally have done. I put that down to the stress I was under at the time. And I don't think you can compare your stress to my stress, that is both impertinent and insulting. As I haven't used it as an excuse your admonishment is pointless.

However, for the first time, you actually do not play the the innocent victem and actually admit a personal flaw, this could get us somewhere!

You on the other hand are playing the pious and rightious persona you have always done.

Do you know where the disagree with me = gay came from? Maybe it was for your time. It certainly was for the time of Braaq and everyone who wasn't on BBD, so it might be nice to tell a little bit of history.

There was a time that I was one of the good bro's. The constructive bro's. I encouraged people in in their logs, I tried to asnwer questions as good as possible etc.

Strange your memory seems to differ from mine. I remember you starting e-fights with people on BBD and stalking people from thread to thread, even being banned several times for it. I even remember you bragging about having "pwned" people in discussions:

Hey bro.

Thx for backing me up in the training section. Anyway, I hope you're not gonna respond to Ghosting or atleast not in a way you give him information.

I'm still waiting for Ghosting to prove my 'google' science wrong, he isn't doing so, but he would love to if he could, doesn't tha mean he can't?

I also asked him which variabele in the human body could possible responsive for rhe fact he claims diffrent people respond to diffrent rep ranges, he's not telling me, although I know would love to, doesn't that mean he can't?

And I owned him so hard on the fiber part, after me saying that directly in every post after it (on purpuse of course) he doesn't talk about it again, although he loves to prove me wrong, doesn't that mean he can't?

And he isn't bothering to take the 'deal' I told him, that if I could back up everything with threads etc, if he would admit he's wrong, doesn't that mean he's scared.

At this stage you and I were still friendly, but you were not universally liked. You had shown your true colours to others. I can remember several discussions both on BBD and MM which were basically about banning you for good for being annoying. The people who stuck up for you were IS and myself (I can't remember any others doing so, not to say there weren't any others) because you were actually posting information. When the information posting stopped was when you became nothing more than abusive.

Then things got really bad when you opened that topic. You can find me a jackass all you want (because I surely am on the internet), but my knowlegde is solid. You did not prove me wrong many times. I am WAY out of your league, even back then. (note that in that topic I had no trouble to acknowledge the fact you knew more about anatomy than me. Also note that I worshiped Ironslave, which proves that learning more was all I cared about, not looking good on the internet. I really doubt that about you. I really do)

Strange, I could post another PM dating from after the one above that showed we often shared resources and you often asked questions of me. Your question was about what I thought of the information on a particular website. Clearly I must be mistaken that you valued my opinion and knowledge "even back then".

No. Alot of people on this forum know less than you, but I do not flame them non stop. I do that, because you made it personal. You pretended to know more than me. What would make me happy, is you admitting you where wrong. And you really realize it. I have no problem with you having a training column. Maybe you really do try to help people as much as possible ,although I really think your e-status is conscious, or unsciously very importanted for you. I do not even care about that, if it helps people that's two birds with one stone.

I made it personal? You flamed me on MSN.

And clearly I have such a concern for my e-status that I'm not moving this thread, I'm being open and honest about things, not stalking anyone from thread to thread abusing them every chance I get (or is that take as you do only seem to drop by occassionally), I'm not starting up troll accounts, I'm even so enamoured of my e-status that I didn't post here for 9-10 months.

Just don't pretend that you know knew or know more than me, proved me many times wrong etc.

I have defended you for as much. But this is you claiming to be perfect. If you want to hear that you are perfect and know everything then start sharing some of this knowledge. Anyone can claim to know stuff, backing it up is what you continually fail to do. In the past you have posted info, but that is a thing of the past and your attacks/claims are now rather empty. Even with your troll account, with which you claimed to have an MSc (which I pointed out immediately was unlikely, as you don't post like a real scientist), you didn't back up information, in fact you used the evidence I'd presented in minuta to essentially argue for argument's sake.

I decided quite a while back to keep everything I know for myself, for the simple reason that I'm going to be a sport nutritionist for top athletes. I want them to have acces to knowledge which is not simply avaible on internet but really have an advantage over others. That is just a business move. For you this is just a hobby, so it's different.

Is this like you having an MSc?

I don't particularly care if you don't share information, because I don't particularly care for you. If you never posted again I would barely notice. You're wealth of information is questionable as if it was true then you would either not be bothered with posting or you would want to correct people with your information. If it is just a personal vendetta you have against me (and others) then why did you start doing this long before your issue with me? The answer is simple; you are a jerk and need to make yourself feel good by annoying others (you have said as much yourself). It gives you a sense of superiority that makes your pathetic life meaningful. Why else such an intermittent state of affairs? For myself I could take or leave any of this (as I have done in the past before being asked back), it won't affect my lifting or other hobbies (if anything it would be good), I don't receive gratification from posting here, and don't need to, my sense of self worth is more tied to achievements and challenges I have set for myself. Is my knowledge of lifting in question? Well considering I'm willing to learn and openness of my limitations (as displayed in the post you were so critical of in the "Soreness" thread) I wouldn't have thought so. Your issue can't be with that really.

The thing is Jorn, this isn't about your loathing for me, this is about you. You alienated everyone (well I can't speak for IS or some others) and having me no longer on your side, no longer "your bro" is what the problem is. If you want me to appologise then you have to realise that you were as much, and most likely more, at fault. Personally I wouldn't be that forgiving as all I did was have you show your true colours to me, as even you would admit to having attacked just about everyone.

Don't expect any replies from me to any of your posts in the future.

 

[jornT]

I hope there are some critical readers here, because nothing you said denies/proved anything I said wrong.

I have read the posts, I've even told people to go read them for themselves. I could have deleted the entire thread or edited it

So that proves what? It proves only one thing: that in your recent post you talk about educating me with a paper, while in the actual convo I made fun of you --> you not being honest.

Consistent??
At the time I really should have pulled the MSN log to show just how abusive and annoying you were. Interesting point, I stopped using MSN because of you.

The last part proves what? That I'm annoying? I think I agreed on that a long time ago.

Never said it as an excuse, I said that looking back I handled things in a manner I would not normally have done. I put that down to the stress I was under at the time. And I don't think you can compare your stress to my stress, that is both impertinent and insulting. As I haven't used it as an excuse your admonishment is pointless.

Sarcasm is so hard to spot on the internet, isn't it? Did you really think I asked you if we could be good bro's again because I only acted how I did because of stress? Why would I put 'see how it doesn't work like that behind it'? I dont hide behind such a lame excuse. Again, I admitted many times that I flamed for fun. Am I a jackass for that? Yes. But I'm atleast 100% honest in contrast to you. But it's nice to see you can use something as an excuse, but not others

You on the other hand are playing the pious and rightious persona you have always done.

This is not about you giving an inch, then me giving a inch etc.

Strange your memory seems to differ from mine. I remember you starting e-fights with people on BBD and stalking people from thread to thread, even being banned several times for it. I even remember you bragging about having "pwned" people in discussions:

Again, this proves what? You still not seem to get, that my whole point is that I might be an jackass on the internet, but I'm atleast honest. Note how I said in my previous post that started to flaming people for fun.

At this stage you and I were still friendly, but you were not universally liked. You had shown your true colours to others. I can remember several discussions both on BBD and MM which were basically about banning you for good for being annoying. The people who stuck up for you were IS and myself (I can't remember any others doing so, not to say there weren't any others) because you were actually posting information. When the information posting stopped was when you became nothing more than abusive.

This sounds exactly like I said what happend?

Strange, I could post another PM dating from after the one above that showed we often shared resources and you often asked questions of me. Your question was about what I thought of the information on a particular website. Clearly I must be mistaken that you valued my opinion and knowledge "even back then".

Another PM? Where in that PM do I ask you for information? Futhermore, it's funny to see that in the topic 'the web's most illogical arguments' you post a strawman. I might have asked you questions every now and than, really don't know that. But that is something completely diffrent than you proving me wrong many times, like you claim(ed).

I made it personal? You flamed me on MSN.

Yeah that is probably true. However there's a diffrence in flaming or actually lying about something. This is something that can be disagreed upon, so I'll put it into other words: you annoyed the fuck out of me with that topic by taking a shot at me, but I do agree I was not a class act myself (but atleast honest)

And clearly I have such a concern for my e-status that I'm not moving this thread, I'm being open and honest about things, not stalking anyone from thread to thread abusing them every chance I get (or is that take as you do only seem to drop by occassionally), I'm not starting up troll accounts, I'm even so enamoured of my e-status that I didn't post here for 9-10 months.

Moving this topic or anything like that is just a cowardly thing to do.

I have defended you for as much. But this is you claiming to be perfect. If you want to hear that you are perfect and know everything then start sharing some of this knowledge. Anyone can claim to know stuff, backing it up is what you continually fail to do. In the past you have posted info, but that is a thing of the past and your attacks/claims are now rather empty. Even with your troll account, with which you claimed to have an MSc (which I pointed out immediately was unlikely, as you don't post like a real scientist), you didn't back up information, in fact you used the evidence I'd presented in minuta to essentially argue for argument's sake.

First of all, you attack me because of my troll account? Remember that at that point I my JornT account was banned after making one post after x months inactivity which wasn't all that inflammatory to start with. Furthermore, I claimed to have a MSc...AS A TROLL ACCOUNT, not as JornT. I only did that to see if you would argue anyway. Oh and I also claimed that I was from Germany, and ask anyone from the Netherlands (Philosopher is dutch) if that is someting someone from the Netherlands would be proud of. I never tried to make it look like the troll account was me personally. It makes no sense to attack my troll account rolleye.
Second of all, strong strawman argument again. Did I ask you to tell me I'm perfect? No. I asked you to admit your claim that you knew more than me was wrong. It is funny because I also talked to IS yesterday and said that I probably know alot more about nutrition/training, while he lilely has 3 times my general medical knowlegde. Saying that someone else has 3 times his general medical knowledge is something who claims to be perfect would say right? But we already figured out that was a strawman argument anyway. Also note that IS agreed, so I have someone who knows ALOT more than you about nutrition/training saying that I know more about that subject...what does that tell you?

I don't particularly care if you don't share information, because I don't particularly care for you. If you never posted again I would barely notice. You're wealth of information is questionable as if it was true then you would either not be bothered with posting or you would want to correct people with your information. If it is just a personal vendetta you have against me (and others) then why did you start doing this long before your issue with me? The answer is simple; you are a jerk and need to make yourself feel good by annoying others (you have said as much yourself). It gives you a sense of superiority that makes your pathetic life meaningful. Why else such an intermittent state of affairs? For myself I could take or leave any of this (as I have done in the past before being asked back), it won't affect my lifting or other hobbies (if anything it would be good), I don't receive gratification from posting here, and don't need to, my sense of self worth is more tied to achievements and challenges I have set for myself. Is my knowledge of lifting in question? Well considering I'm willing to learn and openness of my limitations (as displayed in the post you were so critical of in the "Soreness" thread) I wouldn't have thought so. Your issue can't be with that really.

Oh yeah that was classic. So it shows you were willing to learn something. It also shows your current knowldegde is HORRIBLE. Inflammation is so fucking so fucking basic, if you don't know it, it's insane to claim your proved me wrong so many times. I don't know how many people on this forum have a medical degree, but I think they all have to agree that if you don't know what inflammation is, the last thing you should do is to claim to know more than others.

The thing is Jorn, this isn't about your loathing for me, this is about you. You alienated everyone (well I can't speak for IS or some others) and having me no longer on your side, no longer "your bro" is what the problem is. If you want me to appologise then you have to realise that you were as much, and most likely more, at fault. Personally I wouldn't be that forgiving as all I did was have you show your true colours to me, as even you would admit to having attacked just about everyone.

Do you REALLY think that I want to be good bro's again? I also said like a billion times that I wasn't such a nice guy. All I want, is that you admit that the particular claim that you proved me wrong many times, is absolutely wrong. After that we'll still don't have to best friends, but then I don't have to point out all the stupid stuff you say on here anymore.

Don't expect any replies from me to any of your posts in the future.

This pretty much shows your e-ego is very important. You should have no problem admitting that you did not prove me wrong many times or that I just know my shit alot better than you. (we got IS saying it's just a hobby of you and that I know more about it than him, what does that tell you?), the only reason you don't is because you think I'm an asshole. Ego in the way of honesty, exactly what I've been preaching about all the time.

 

[dilatedmuscle]

wtf is going on here?... im starting to get scared...

 

[Storm]

There's only a way to solve this: A Dance battle!

 

[Ironslave]

It is funny because I also talked to IS yesterday and said that I probably know alot more about nutrition/training, while he lilely has 3 times my general medical knowlegde. Saying that someone else has 3 times his general medical knowledge is something who claims to be perfect would say right? But we already figured out that was a strawman argument anyway. Also note that IS agreed, so I have someone who knows ALOT more than you about nutrition/training saying that I know more about that subject...what does that tell you?

we got IS saying it's just a hobby of you and that I know more about it than him, what does that tell you?), the only reason you don't is because you think I'm an asshole. Ego in the way of honesty, exactly what I've been preaching about all the time.

Woah woah woah.... you were referring to things about nutrition like the different nuances of protein ingestion. I don't remember blanketing it to all of training/nutrition in general, nor would I agree with that

It's not an "insult" by any means to say that exercise science is a hobby of Tim's, he's said so himself, and it's a compliment that his knowledge is great in the area despite it not being his area of training, or his career occupation. Not everybody wants to be a nutritionist/physiologist, and that doesn't make him an armchair scientist by any means. The brightest guy I know personally in physiology is an Arts major.

Quit being such a douche Jorn, and don't drag me into this.

 

[jornT]

Woah woah woah.... you were referring to things about nutrition like the different nuances of protein ingestion. I don't remember blanketing it to all of training/nutrition in general, nor would I agree with that

It's not an "insult" by any means to say that exercise science is a hobby of Tim's, he's said so himself, and it's a compliment that his knowledge is great in the area despite it not being his area of training, or his career occupation. Not everybody wants to be a nutritionist/physiologist, and that doesn't make him an armchair scientist by any means. The brightest guy I know personally in physiology is an Arts major.

Quit being such a douche Jorn, and don't drag me into this.

I'm at a diffrent location than yesterday so I can't check but I believe I said nutrition and training together, and not just some aspect from it.
Post the actual conversation

But I'll keep you out of this, whatever 'this' is. Because Tim will not reply anymore anyway. He has better things to do (like learning what inflammation is)