Bush condemns 'bullying' Russia
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    Bush condemns 'bullying' Russia

    I literally lol'd at the part I have bolded.



    President Bush on Friday accused Russia of "bullying and intimidation" in its harsh military treatment of Georgia, saying the people in the former Soviet republic have chosen freedom and "we will not cast them aside."

    Bush ratcheted up his rhetoric against Moscow as Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was in Tbilisi, Georgia to pursue a diplomatic solution to the week-old crisis. Standing alongside Rice, pro-Western President Mikhail Saakashvili said he had signed a cease-fire agreement with Russia that protects Georgia's interests despite concessions to Moscow.

    Rice said all Russian troops "must leave immediately" and said she had been told that Russian President Dmitry Medvedev will sign an identical pact.

    The rush of events came as Bush began a two-week holiday from Washington. He left the White House after his remarks and flew to his ranch in Texas. Rice is to arrive there early Saturday to brief the president about the showdown between Moscow and Tbilisi over two separatist provinces in Georgia.

    "Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity must be respected," said Bush, speaking just outside the Oval Office.

    With just five months remaining in his administration, Bush faces one of his biggest foreign policy challenges in dealing with a suddenly assertive Russia, along with unfinished wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the deeply troubled search for peace in the Middle East. Bush's influence is waning as the world turns its attention to the race to determine who will succeed him.

    Bush said that Russia, with its air, sea and land attacks in Georgia, had damaged its relations with the United States and other Western powers.

    "Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century," the president said. "Only Russia can decide whether it will now put itself back on the path of responsible nations or continue to pursue a policy that promises only confrontation and isolation.

    "To begin repairing relations with the United States, Europe and other nations and to begin restoring its place in the world, Russia must respect the freedom of its neighbors," Bush said.

    The White House has hedged on what consequences Russia might face. The administration is considering expelling Russia from international groups such as the Group of Eight industrialized nations. Questions also have been raised about U.S. cooperation with Russia in space.

    "We need to see where this all ends up," White House deputy press secretary Gordon Johndroe said on Air Force One, flying to Texas with Bush. "We are hopeful that we can continue cooperation with the Russians — and that's across the board. But a lot of this depends on Russia, and what Russia's actions are in the near future. Right now their actions have been inconsistent ... with the fundamental principles of a Europe whole, free and at peace. So cooperation on a wide range of issues going forward depends on the actions that Russia takes."

    Even before the crisis in Georgia, tensions between Washington and Moscow have been rising over disputes such as the independence of Kosovo, NATO's expansion toward Russia's borders and U.S. plans for a missile defense system in Eastern Europe. Moscow was infuriated when the United States and Poland reached a deal Thursday to install a U.S. missile defense base on Polish territory.

    Still, Bush said, "The Cold War is over. The days of satellite states and spheres of influence are behind us."

    The United States has rushed humanitarian aid to Georgia, using U.S. military planes that put American forces in the midst of the showdown with Moscow.

    "Moscow must honor its commitment to withdraw its invading forces from all Georgian territory," Bush said.

    The president said Americans might be perplexed why the United States had drawn a line in the sand in defense of Georgia, an impoverished country that is largely unknown on the world stage.

    "In the years since its gained independence after the Soviet Union's collapse, Georgia's become a courageous democracy," Bush said. "It's people are making the tough choices that are required of free societies. Since the Rose Revolution in 2003, the Georgian people have held free elections, opened up their economy, and built the foundations of a successful democracy."

    Aligning itself firmly with Washington, Georgia sent troops to Afghanistan and Iraq. Bush visited Georgia in a show of solidarity and promised that the United States would stand with the former Soviet republic.

    "The people of Georgia have cast their lot with the free world, and we will not cast them aside," the president pledged on Friday.

    Bush on Friday called President Toomas Hendrik Ilves of Estonia to talk about the situation in Georgia.'

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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Mygeeto's Avatar
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    .. comming from the country thats forever been picking on and going to war with countries vastly inferior to it in nearly every way for the last hundred years


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mygeeto View Post
    .. comming from the country thats forever been picking on and going to war with countries vastly inferior to it in nearly every way for the last hundred years
    That was the point of the thread.






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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Bulkboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mygeeto View Post
    .. comming from the country thats forever been picking on and going to war with countries vastly inferior to it in nearly every way for the last hundred years
    i suggest u read up alittle on the conflict in georgia and how it was conducted befoure u throw out those remarks.

    because america has made mistakes in the past that doesent mean one is not allowed to critizise russia for something that is clearly a great violation. if any of u for a second think america has conducted a brutal warfare in iraq or afghanistan then check out what the russians have done to the civillian population over there.


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    Ron Paul FTW bodybuilding reputation Tech's Avatar
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    I always love how Bulkboy is the only one who can't see how fucked up America is.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
    I always love how Bulkboy is the only one who can't see how fucked up America is.
    but what does that has to do with this particular case? im kinda tired of seeing every thread being turned into an american flaming one. this conflict in the caucasus was beyond horrible and illegal, and it must be allowed to bring that up without dragging america into it. its the same as saying the germans cant critizise any other nation for their foreign policy, because they started ww1 and ww2. its just not very relevant. the world should condemn russia united for what they did there.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulkboy View Post
    i suggest u read up alittle on the conflict in georgia and how it was conducted befoure u throw out those remarks.

    because america has made mistakes in the past that doesent mean one is not allowed to critizise russia for something that is clearly a great violation. if any of u for a second think america has conducted a brutal warfare in iraq or afghanistan then check out what the russians have done to the civillian population over there.

    War in the Caucasus: Towards a Broader Russia-US Military Confrontation?

    by Michel Chossudovsky

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...articleId=9788

    During the night of August 7, coinciding with the opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympics, Georgia's president Saakashvili ordered an all-out military attack on Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia.

    The aerial bombardments and ground attacks were largely directed against civilian targets including residential areas, hospitals and the university. The provincial capital Tskhinvali was destroyed. The attacks resulted in some 1500 civilian deaths, according to both Russian and Western sources. "The air and artillery bombardment left the provincial capital without water, food, electricity and gas. Horrified civilians crawled out of the basements into the streets as fighting eased, looking for supplies." (AP, August 9, 2008). According to reports, some 34,000 people from South Ossetia have fled to Russia. (Deseret Morning News, Salt Lake City, August 10, 2008)

    The importance and timing of this military operation must be carefully analyzed. It has far-reaching implications.

    Georgia is an outpost of US and NATO forces, on the immediate border of the Russian Federation and within proximity of the Middle East Central Asian war theater. South Ossetia is also at the crossroads of strategic oil and gas pipeline routes.

    Georgia does not act militarily without the assent of Washington. The Georgian head of State is a US proxy and Georgia is a de facto US protectorate.

    Who is behind this military agenda? What interests are being served? What is the purpose of the military operation.

    There is evidence that the attacks were carefully coordinated by the US military and NATO.

    Moscow has accused NATO of "encouraging Georgia". Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov underscored the destabilizing impacts of "foreign" military aid to Georgia: .

    “It all confirms our numerous warnings addressed to the international community that it is necessary to pay attention to massive arms purchasing by Georgia during several years. Now we see how these arms and Georgian special troops who had been trained by foreign specialists are used,” he said.(Moscow accuses NATO of having "encouraged Georgia" to attack South Ossetia, Russia Today, August 9, 2008)

    Moscow's envoy to NATO, Dmitry Rogozin, sent an official note to the representatives of all NATO member countries:

    “Russia has already begun consultations with the ambassadors of the NATO countries and consultations with NATO military representatives will be held tomorrow," Rogozin said. "We will caution them against continuing to further support of Saakashvili."

    “It is an undisguised aggression accompanied by a mass propaganda war,” he said.

    (See Moscow accuses NATO of having "encouraged Georgia" to attack South Ossetia, Russia Today, August 9, 2008)

    According to Rogozin, Georgia had initially planned to:

    "start military action against Abkhazia, however, 'the Abkhaz fortified region turned out to be unassailable for Georgian armed formations, therefore a different tactic was chosen aimed against South Ossetia', which is more accessible territorially. The envoy has no doubts that Mikheil Saakashvili had agreed his actions with "sponsors", "those with whom he is negotiating Georgia's accession to NATO ". (RIA Novosti, August 8, 2008)

    Contrary to what was conveyed by Western media reports, the attacks were anticipated by Moscow. The attacks were timed to coincide with the opening of the Olympics, largely with a view to avoiding frontpage media coverage of the Georgian military operation.

    On August 7, Russian forces were in an advanced state readiness. The counterattack was swiftly carried out.

    Russian paratroopers were sent in from Russia's Ivanovo, Moscow and Pskov airborne divisions. Tanks, armored vehicles and several thousand ground troops have been deployed. Russian air strikes have largely targeted military facilities inside Georgia including the Gori military base.

    The Georgian military attack was repelled with a massive show of strength on the part of the Russian military.

    Act of Provocation?

    US-NATO military and intelligence planners invariably examine various "scenarios" of a proposed military operation-- i.e. in this case, a limited Georgian attack largely directed against civilian targets, with a view to inflicting civilian casualties.

    The examination of scenarios is a routine practice. With limited military capabilities, a Georgian victory and occupation of Tskhinvali, was an impossibility from the outset. And this was known and understood to US-NATO military planners.

    A humanitarian disaster rather than a military victory was an integral part of the scenario. The objective was to destroy the provincial capital, while also inflicting a significant loss of human life.

    If the objective were to restore Georgian political control over the provincial government, the operation would have been undertaken in a very different fashion, with Special Forces occupying key public buildings, communications networks and provincial institutions, rather than waging an all out bombing raid on residential areas, hospitals, not to mention Tskhinvali's University.

    The Russian response was entirely predictable.

    Georgia was "encouraged" by NATO and the US. Both Washington and NATO headquarters in Brussels were acutely aware of what would happen in the case of a Russian counterattack.

    The question is: was this a deliberate provocation intended to trigger a Russian military response and suck the Russians into a broader military confrontation with Georgia (and allied forces) which could potentially escalate into an all out war?

    Georgia has the third largest contingent of coalition forces in Iraq after the US and the UK, with some 2000 troops. According to reports, Georgian troops in Iraq are now being repatriated in US military planes, to fight Russian forces. (See Debka.com, August 10, 2008)

    This US decision to repatriate Georgian servicemen suggests that Washington is intent upon an escalation of the conflict, where Georgian troops are to be used as cannon fodder against a massive deployment of Russian forces.

    US-NATO and Israel Involved in the Planning of the Attacks

    In mid-July, Georgian and U.S. troops held a joint military exercise entitled "Immediate Response" involving respectively 1,200 US and 800 Georgian troops.

    The announcement by the Georgian Ministry of Defense on July 12 stated that they US and Georgian troops were to "train for three weeks at the Vaziani military base" near the Georgian capital, Tbilisi. (AP, July 15, 2008). These exercises, which were completed barely a week before the August 7 attacks, were an obvious dress rehearsal of a military operation, which, in all likelihood, had been planned in close cooperation with the Pentagon.

    The war on Southern Ossetia was not meant to be won, leading to the restoration of Georgian sovereignty over South Ossetia. It was intended to destabilize the region while also triggering a US-NATO confrontation with Russia.

    On July 12, coinciding with the outset of the Georgia-US war games, the Russian Defense Ministry started its own military maneuvers in the North Caucasus region. The usual disclaimer by both Tblisi and Moscow: the military exercises have “nothing to do” with the situation in South Ossetia. (Ibid)

    Let us be under no illusions. This is not a civil war. The attacks are an integral part of the broader Middle East Central Asian war, including US-NATO-Israeli war preparations in relation to Iran.

    The Role of Israeli Military Advisers

    While NATO and US military advisers did not partake in the military operation per se, they were actively involved in the planning and logistics of the attacks. According to Israeli sources (Debka.com, August 8, 2008), the ground assault on August 7-8, using tanks and artillery was "aided by Israeli military advisers". Israel also supplied Georgia with Hermes-450 and Skylark unmanned aerial vehicles, which were used in the weeks leading up to the August 7 attacks.

    Georgia has also acquired, according to a report in Rezonansi (August 6, in Georgian, BBC translation) "some powerful weapons through the upgrade of Su-25 planes and artillery systems in Israel". According to Haaretz (August 10, 2008), Israelis are active in military manufacturing and security consulting in Georgia.

    Russian forces are now directly fighting a NATO-US trained Georgian army integrated by US and Israeli advisers. And Russian warplanes have attacked the military jet factory on the outskirts of Tbilisi, which produces the upgraded Su-25 fighter jet, with technical support from Israel. (CTV.ca, August 10, 2008)

    When viewed in the broader context of the Middle East war, the crisis in Southern Ossetia could lead to escalation, including a direct confrontation between Russian and NATO forces. If this were to occur, we would be facing the most serious crisis in US-Russian relations since the Cuban Missile crisis in October 1962.

    Georgia: NATO-US Outpost

    Georgia is part of a NATO military alliance (GUAM) signed in April 1999 at the very outset of the war on Yugoslavia. It also has a bilateral military cooperation agreement with the US. These underlying military agreements have served to protect Anglo-American oil interests in the Caspian sea basin as well as pipeline routes.

    Both the US and NATO have a military presence in Georgia and are working closely with the Georgian Armed Forces. Since the signing of the 1999 GUAM agreement, Georgia has been the recipient of extensive US military aid.

    Barely a few months ago, in early May, the Russian Ministry of Defense accused Washington, "claiming that [US as well as NATO and Israeli] military assistance to Georgia is destabilizing the region." (Russia Claims Georgia in Arms Buildup, Wired News, May 19, 2008). According to the Russian Defense Ministry

    "Georgia has received 206 tanks, of which 175 units were supplied by NATO states, 186 armored vehicles (126 - from NATO) , 79 guns (67 - from NATO) , 25 helicopters (12 - from NATO) , 70 mortars, ten surface-to-air missile systems, eight Israeli-made unmanned aircraft, and other weapons. In addition, NATO countries have supplied four combat aircraft to Georgia. The Russian Defense Ministry said there were plans to deliver to Georgia 145 armored vehicles, 262 guns and mortars, 14 combat aircraft including four Mirazh-2000 destroyers, 25 combat helicopters, 15 American Black Hawk aircraft, six surface-to-air missile systems and other arms." (Interfax News Agency, Moscow, in Russian, Aug 7, 2008)

    NATO-US-Israeli assistance under formal military cooperation agreements involves a steady flow of advanced military equipment as well as training and consulting services.

    According to US military sources (spokesman for US European Command), the US has more than 100 "military trainers" in Georgia. A Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman "said there were no plans to redeploy the estimated 130 US troops and civilian contractors, who he said were stationed in the area around Tblisi" (AFP, 9 August 2008). In fact, US-NATO military presence in Georgia is on a larger scale to that acknowledged in official statements. The number of NATO personnel in Georgia acting as trainers and military advisers has not been confirmed.

    Although not officially a member of NATO, Georgia's military is full integrated into NATO procedures. In 2005, Georgian president proudly announced the inauguration of the first military base, which "fully meets NATO standards". Immediately following the inauguration of the Senakskaya base in west Georgia, Tblisi announced the opening of a second military base at Gori which would also "comply with NATO regulations in terms of military requirements as well as social conditions." (Ria Novosti, 26 May 2006).

    The Gori base has been used to train Georgian troops dispatched to fight under US command in the Iraq war theater.

    It is worth noting that under a March 31, 2006, agreement between Tblisi and Moscow, Russia's two Soviet-era military bases in Georgia - Akhalkalaki and Batumi have been closed down. (Ibid) The pullout at Batumi commenced in May of last year, 2007. The last remaining Russian troops left the Batumi military facility in early July 2008, barely a week before the commencement of the US-Georgia war games and barely a month prior to the attacks on South Ossetia.

    The Israel Connection

    Israel is now part of the Anglo-American military axis, which serves the interests of the Western oil giants in the Middle East and Central Asia.

    Israel is a partner in the Baku-Tblisi- Ceyhan pipeline which brings oil and gas to the Eastern Mediterranean. More than 20 percent of Israeli oil is imported from Azerbaijan, of which a large share transits through the BTC pipeline. Controlled by British Petroleum, the BTC pipeline has dramatically changed the geopolitics of the Eastern Mediterranean and the Caucusus:

    "[The BTC pipeline] considerably changes the status of the region's countries and cements a new pro-West alliance. Having taken the pipeline to the Mediterranean, Washington has practically set up a new bloc with Azerbaijan, Georgia, Turkey and Israel, " (Komerzant, Moscow, 14 July 2006)

    While the official reports state that the BTC pipeline will "channel oil to Western markets", what is rarely acknowledged is that part of the oil from the Caspian sea would be directly channeled towards Israel, via Georgia. In this regard, a Israeli-Turkish pipeline project has also been envisaged which would link Ceyhan to the Israeli port of Ashkelon and from there through Israel's main pipeline system, to the Red Sea.

    The objective of Israel is not only to acquire Caspian sea oil for its own consumption needs but also to play a key role in re-exporting Caspian sea oil back to the Asian markets through the Red Sea port of Eilat. The strategic implications of this re-routing of Caspian sea oil are far-reaching. (For further details see Michel Chossudovsky, The War on Lebanon and the Battle for Oil, Global Research, July 2006)

    What is envisaged is to link the BTC pipeline to the Trans-Israel Eilat-Ashkelon pipeline, also known as Israel's Tipline, from Ceyhan to the Israeli port of Ashkelon.

    "Turkey and Israel are negotiating the construction of a multi-million-dollar energy and water project that will transport water, electricity, natural gas and oil by pipelines to Israel, with the oil to be sent onward from Israel to the Far East,

    The new Turkish-Israeli proposal under discussion would see the transfer of water, electricity, natural gas and oil to Israel via four underwater pipelines.

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

    “Baku oil can be transported to Ashkelon via this new pipeline and to India and the Far East.[via the Red sea]"

    "Ceyhan and the Mediterranean port of Ashkelon are situated only 400 km apart. Oil can be transported to the city in tankers or via specially constructed under-water pipeline. From Ashkelon the oil can be pumped through already existing pipeline to the port of Eilat at the Red Sea; and from there it can be transported to India and other Asian countries in tankers. (REGNUM)

    In this regard, Israel is slated to play a major strategic role in "protecting" the Eastern Mediterranean transport and pipeline corridors out of Ceyhan. Concurrently, it also involved in channeling military aid and training to both Georgia and Azerbaijan.

    A far-reaching 1999 bilateral military cooperation agreement between Tblisi and Tel Aviv was reached barely a month before the NATO sponsored GUUAM agreement. It was signed in Tbilisi by President Shevardnadze and Israel's Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyu. These various military cooperation arrangements are ultimately intended to undermine Russia's presence and influence in the Caucasus and Central Asia.

    In a pro forma declaration, Tel Aviv committed itself, following bilateral discussions with Moscow, on August 5, 2008, to cut back military assistance to Georgia.

    Russia's Response

    In response to the attacks, Russian forces intervened with conventional ground troops. Tanks and armored vehicles were sent in. The Russian air force was also involved in aerial counter-attacks on Georgian military positions including the military base of Gori.

    The Western media has portrayed the Russian as solely responsible for the deaths of civilians, yet at the same time the Western media has acknowledged (confirmed by the BBC) that most of the civilian casualties at the outset were the result of the Georgian ground and air attacks.

    Based on Russian and Western sources, the initial death toll in South Ossetia was at least 1,400 (BBC) mostly civilians. "Georgian casualty figures ranged from 82 dead, including 37 civilians, to a figure of around 130 dead.... A Russian air strike on Gori, a Georgian town near South Ossetia, left 60 people dead, many of them civilians, Georgia says." (BBC, August 9, 2008). Russian sources place the number of civilian deaths in South Ossetia at 2000.

    A process of escalation and confrontation between Russia and America is unfolding, reminiscent of the Cold War era.

    Are we dealing with an act of provocation, with a view to triggering a broader conflict? Supported by media propaganda, the Western military alliance is intent on using this incident to confront Russia, as evidenced by recent NATO statements.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulkboy View Post
    but what does that has to do with this particular case? im kinda tired of seeing every thread being turned into an american flaming one. this conflict in the caucasus was beyond horrible and illegal, and it must be allowed to bring that up without dragging america into it. its the same as saying the germans cant critizise any other nation for their foreign policy, because they started ww1 and ww2. its just not very relevant. the world should condemn russia united for what they did there.
    You can rest assured that pretty much any conflict between nations, America has a hand in there somewhere.




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    The Neocons Do Georgia
    Humanity's Greatest Enemy?

    By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

    http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts08152008.html

    The success of the Bush Regime’s propaganda, lies, and deception with gullible and inattentive Americans since 9/11 has made it difficult for intelligent, aware people to be optimistic about the future of the United States. For almost 8 years the US media has served as Ministry of Propaganda for a war criminal regime. Americans incapable of thinking for themselves, reading between the lines, or accessing foreign media on the Internet have been brainwashed.

    As the Nazi propagandist, Joseph Goebbels, said, it is easy to deceive a people. You just tell them they have been attacked and wave the flag.

    It certainly worked with Americans.

    The gullibility and unconcern of the American people has had many victims. There are 1.25 million dead Iraqis. There are 4 million displaced Iraqis. No one knows how many are maimed and orphaned.

    Iraq is in ruins, its infrastructure destroyed by American bombs, missiles, and helicopter gunships.

    We do not know the death toll in Afghanistan, but even the American puppet regime protests the repeated killings of women and children by US and NATO troops.

    We don’t know what the death toll would be in Iran if Darth Cheney and the neocons succeed in their plot with Israel to bomb Iran, perhaps with nuclear weapons.

    What we do know is that all this murder and destruction has no justification and is evil. It is the work of evil men who have no qualms about lying and deceiving in order to kill innocent people to achieve their undeclared agenda.

    That such evil people have control over the United States government and media damns the American public for eternity.

    America will never recover from the shame and dishonor heaped upon her by the neoconned Bush Regime.

    The success of the neocon propaganda has been so great that the opposition party has not lifted a finger to rein in the Bush Regime’s criminal actions. Even Obama, who promises “change” is too intimidated by the neocon’s success in brainwashing the American population to do what his supporters hoped he would do and lead us out of the shame in which the neoconned Bush Regime has imprisoned us.

    This about sums up the pessimistic state in which I existed prior to the go-ahead given by the Bush Regime to its puppet in Georgia to ethnically cleanse South Ossetia of Russians in order to defuse the separatist movement. The American media, aka, the Ministry of Lies and Deceit, again accommodated the criminal Bush Regime and proclaimed “Russian invasion” to cover up the ethnic cleansing of Russians in South Ossetia by the Georgian military assault.

    Only this time, the rest of the world didn’t buy it. The many years of lies--9/11, Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, al Qaeda connections, yellowcake, anthrax attack, Iranian nukes, “the United States doesn’t torture,” the bombings of weddings, funerals, and children’s soccer games, Abu Ghraib, renditions, Guantanamo, various fabricated “terrorist plots,” the determined assault on civil liberties--have taken their toll on American credibility. No one outside America any longer believes the US media or the US government.

    The rest of the world reported the facts--an assault on Russian civilians by American and Israeli trained and equipped Georgian troops.

    The Bush Regime, overcome by hubris, expected Russia to accept this act of American hegemony. But the Russians did not, and the Georgian military was sent fleeing for its life.

    The neoconned Republican response to the Russian failure to follow the script and to be intimidated by the “unipower” was so imbecilic that it shattered the brainwashing to which Americans had succumbed.

    McCain declared: “In the 21st century nations don’t invade other nations.” Imagine the laughs Jon Stewart will get out of this on the Daily Show. In the early years of the 21st century the United States has already invaded two countries and has been beating the drums for attacking a third. President Bush, the chief invader of the 21st century, echoed McCain’s claim that nations don’t invade other nations. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7556857.stm

    This dissonant claim shocked even brainwashed Americans, as readers’ emails reveal. If in the 21st century countries don’t invade other countries, what is Bush doing in Iraq and Afghanistan, and what are the naval armadas and propaganda arrayed against Iran about?

    Have two of the worst warmongers of modern times--Bush and McCain--called off the US/Israeli attack on Iran? If McCain is elected president, is he going to pull US troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan as “nations don’t invade other nations,” or is President Bush going to beat him to it?

    We all know the answer.

    The two stooges are astonished that the Americans have taught hegemony to Russians, who were previously operating, naively perhaps, on the basis of good will.

    Suddenly the Western Europeans have realized that being allied with the United States is like holding a tiger by the tail. No European country wants to be hurled into war with Russia. Germany, France, and Italy must be thanking God they blocked Georgia’s membership in NATO.

    The Ukraine, where a sick nationalism has taken hold funded by the neocon National Endowment for Democracy, will be the next conflict between American pretensions and Russia. Russia is being taught by the neocons that freeing the constituent parts of its empire has not resulted in their independence but in their absorption into the American Empire.

    Unless enough Americans can overcome their brainwashed state and the rigged Diebold voting machines, turn out the imbecilic Republicans and hold the neoconservatives accountable for their crimes against humanity, a crazed neocon US government will provoke nuclear war with Russia.

    The neoconservatives represent the greatest danger ever faced by the United States and the world. Humanity has no greater enemy.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulkboy View Post
    but what does that has to do with this particular case? im kinda tired of seeing every thread being turned into an american flaming one. this conflict in the caucasus was beyond horrible and illegal, and it must be allowed to bring that up without dragging america into it. its the same as saying the germans cant critizise any other nation for their foreign policy, because they started ww1 and ww2. its just not very relevant. the world should condemn russia united for what they did there.
    Oh yeah? Well, I'm tired of being lied to by the American government. It makes me sick to my stomach how much we are backing Georgia, practically asking for another cold war. In the meantime, we're at war or very close to it in three different countries; which alone we can't handle. This war between Russia and Georgia was started by Saakashvilli, just take it from a Georgian citizen that was nearly killed.







    By the way, your Germany analogy is terrible. George Bush and John McCain were the one's to make the ironic statement, after attacking two other countries already in the 21st century. It would be more like Hitler saying in the middle of WW2 that "Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 20th century," Mr. Hitler said."

    For your information Bulkboy, Germany did not start World War 1.




  11. #11
    Ron Paul FTW bodybuilding reputation Tech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flex View Post
    jailbait.

    :carduindisguise




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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Mygeeto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulkboy View Post
    i suggest u read up alittle on the conflict in georgia and how it was conducted befoure u throw out those remarks.

    because america has made mistakes in the past that doesent mean one is not allowed to critizise russia for something that is clearly a great violation. if any of u for a second think america has conducted a brutal warfare in iraq or afghanistan then check out what the russians have done to the civillian population over there.
    i dont need to to see the hypocrisy in the original post.




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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Flex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
    jailbait.

    :carduindisguise





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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Braaq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
    I always love how Bulkboy is the only one who can't see how fucked up America is.
    As fucked up as something may be it is still the best place to be


    [April|MOTM] Braaq
    sigpic72117 1


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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Braaq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mygeeto View Post
    .. comming from the country thats forever been picking on and going to war with countries vastly inferior to it in nearly every way for the last hundred years
    What an idiotic comment, for one: how are they "inferior in every way" if we are in fact "picking" on them? Also, that sort of foreign policy has only been around since 1945. So again you exaggerate too extreme. We may have done some shady things in the past but it pales in comparison to what the Soviet Union has done to it's satellite states. Hell, your country wouldn't be where it is today with out the United States. You guys, like Canada, are completely oblivious to this fact and unthankfull.
    Again we are far from perfect, but please put some thought into your posts before you come off this way again.




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    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Ironslave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braaq View Post
    What an idiotic comment, for one: how are they "inferior in every way" if we are in fact "picking" on them? Also, that sort of foreign policy has only been around since 1945. So again you exaggerate too extreme. We may have done some shady things in the past but it pales in comparison to what the Soviet Union has done to it's satellite states. Hell, your country wouldn't be where it is today with out the United States. You guys, like Canada, are completely oblivious to this fact and unthankfull.
    Again we are far from perfect, but please put some thought into your posts before you come off this way again.
    Not really, America has easily killed more people than any other nation. The most hideous act ever performed in the history of the world was dropping of the nuclear bomb, and America did it twice. If any other country, say the Soviets or Germany did this, it would be viewed as such. But somehow America gets a "pass", because they did it to "end the war", lol.

    It has been about 100 years for America, it went on with the sinking of the Lusitania, which was basically served on a platter to be hit and get America into WW1.

    Don't view it as a personal attack, because it's not, but politically, the governments of no other country has come close to doing the harm around the world America has.




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    Ron Paul FTW bodybuilding reputation Tech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braaq View Post
    As fucked up as something may be it is still the best place to be
    thats debatable.




  18. #18
    Mecca V.I.P. bodybuilding reputation Flex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironslave View Post
    Not really, America has easily killed more people than any other nation. The most hideous act ever performed in the history of the world was dropping of the nuclear bomb, and America did it twice. If any other country, say the Soviets or Germany did this, it would be viewed as such. But somehow America gets a "pass", because they did it to "end the war", lol.
    It was viewed as a "pass" because our pacific fleet was wiped out while they were in their beds sleeping. Not that it made it right, but this was the 1940's after-all. The first 4-5 decades of the 20th century for the Soviets, Japan, Germany, United States plus others, were spent on creating the most effective and devastating new weapons for war. There were no lines drawn on to what was right and what was wrong.

    For the record, i'm not defending the United States actions.

    It has been about 100 years for America, it went on with the sinking of the Lusitania, which was basically served on a platter to be hit and get America into WW1.
    Germany gave us several warnings and the people were very unwise, but stating the Lusitania was purposely used to bring upon war is a strong statement.






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