$15 Billion auto bailout coming

[Ryeland]

LOL!

IS, I think we are understanding each other now. I will bring what is probably my last new point to this which is that the management hasn't been the one making the decisions that have driven these companies into the ground. I don't think you can really comprehend the power of the union until you have worked at one of these places. For the past 2 decades the union has been in a place of more power than the management. Its a real tough situation for them.

 

[Ironslave]

LOL!

IS, I think we are understanding each other now. I will bring what is probably my last new point to this which is that the management hasn't been the one making the decisions that have driven these companies into the ground. I don't think you can really comprehend the power of the union until you have worked at one of these places. For the past 2 decades the union has been in a place of more power than the management. Its a real tough situation for them.

For sure dude, I'm not doubting the power of the unions, nobody is. But if the company goes under, then those in the union are out of a job, yes? then they fucked themselves, and someone else comes in, maybe the same management even, who knows. Either way, the current auto industry isn't viable.

 

[Braaq]

What you have said is true. I have not been arguing against those points. If any of the three will survive it will be ford.

I repeat there is no company that could replace any one, let alone more than one of those immediately.

My real theory of their plan is that they will file chapter 11, and then be able to give the union the boot.

As I said Ironslave, none of these companies are stupid or lack innovative and advancing spirits. Their hands have been tied by union and government officials. If given the chance to succeed, Ford will, GM likely will, Chrysler likely will not.

I work for a company that supplies stuff to ford, I am in the advanced R&D dept and the stuff ford has coming down the pipe is amazing. Given the chance, these companies can be back on top.

Like I said, the big 3 are not the lazy giants they are often depicted to be. If given the ability to remove union dead weight they could go a long way.

I think it should be made very public that the reason that these loans, which is what they are, are being held up is that the union will not make concessions.

I know GM is doing a lot of R & D as well, especially with creating Hydrogen Fuel cell engines. We had them bring some prototypes to my school a month ago with the engineers working on it, because the top guy graduated from the U of A. I think Ford and GM should be given a chance, Chrysler had a second chance back in 1979... so this would be their third and I do not necessarily think we should give it to them again.

 

[Ryeland]

I know GM is doing a lot of R & D as well, especially with creating Hydrogen Fuel cell engines. We had them bring some prototypes to my school a month ago with the engineers working on it, because the top guy graduated from the U of A. I think Ford and GM should be given a chance, Chrysler had a second chance back in 1979... so this would be their third and I do not necessarily think we should give it to them again.

Chrysler won't make it either way.

I agree man, Ford and GM do some amazing technical work. For them to go under due to being fucked by the union would a loss of two driving forces of innovation.

 

[Duality]

Chrysler won't make it either way.

I agree man, Ford and GM do some amazing technical work. For them to go under due to being fucked by the union would a loss of two driving forces of innovation.

out of curiosity why do you feel chrysler is so doomed? i'm aware they are the weakest of the 3 and have the least amount of engineering prowess compared to the other 2, but why according to you are they the most likely to die?

 

[Braaq]

out of curiosity why do you feel chrysler is so doomed? i'm aware they are the weakest of the 3 and have the least amount of engineering prowess compared to the other 2, but why according to you are they the most likely to die?

I would say just look at how history does indeed repeat itself. They have already failed once, they are failing again.

 

[Duality]

I would say just look at how history does indeed repeat itself. They have already failed once, they are failing again.

did you change your username ryeland?


and a little adage is not justification as to why chrysler is the most likely to fail

 

[Ironslave]

Ryeland you clearly know the most about the industry..... if these companies all bankrupt, does that mean the unions will cease to exist?

 

[Ryeland]

Ryeland you clearly know the most about the industry..... if these companies all bankrupt, does that mean the unions will cease to exist?

I am not certain of that fact, but I do know that Honda and Toyota will not tolerate a union. They will close plants, move cities whatever is necessary to stop them.

I am not advocating the complete eradication of the unions, I am advocating the union take the steps to ensure its own future success. The problem is not what we pay the union workers. The problem is that it is almost impossible to fire any of them, even for gross incompetence. I would say between half to two thirds of those workers are honest, hard working guys who deserve decent pay and benefits. However they are supporting some of the scum of the universe. People who intentionally screw up what they are doing, I have seen guys intentionally pass cylinder heads for quality when it was clearly visible to myself and them that it was a failure. Supporting lazy, incompetent and vindictive employees is not one of the ideas that was in mind when the unions were formed.

I do think the death of the big 3 would put an end to the CAW and UAW as we know them, they may still exist but their practices would be wildly different and hopefully more productive. They can still earn premium dollar if they are committed to making premium product.

As to why Chrysler will die there is a combination of a few factors. Their finances are in terrible shape. They are do not have any blockbuster cars coming down the line. The biggest factor is that Chrysler is owned by another corporation, Cerberus, a private equity firm. Now the fact that equity right now is in a crunch really hurts the parent company of Chrysler. I have a few friends on the inside at Chrysler's R&D labs and there are layoffs left right and center. The word on the inside is that chrysler might not even make into 2009. The big factor of chrysler's failure or closing is their ownership. Cerberus is not about making cars, they are about leveraging equity. I have serious doubts as to whether they are willing to ride this out.

If there is any debate on my ideas I would like to hear it, I know a fair bit about the industry, but not everything.

 

[TJ]

My grandmother use to work for a big GM plant and she was a union worker. She's been retired for about 20 years and she just got a raise. Yes, a freakin raise on her retirement. W.T.F?

 

[Hypocrisy86]

My grandmother use to work for a big GM plant and she was a union worker. She's been retired for about 20 years and she just got a raise. Yes, a freakin raise on her retirement. W.T.F?

how is that possible.

 

[Ryeland]

how is that possible.

Its how the union struck its pension deal. Crazy shit man.

 

[TJ]

My grandmother use to work for a big GM plant and she was a union worker. She's been retired for about 20 years and she just got a raise. Yes, a freakin raise on her retirement. W.T.F?

She just received her annual christmas bonus.