California considers ending welfare

[tim290280]

what a silly "statistic".

How about we let business owners decide who the hard workers are. If someone is lazy or does poor work, that's none of your concern. The only person that should matter to is the employer.

I think you and IS missed the key point I was making; that is that the high taxes on cigarettes and alcohol (insert bad item here) are paying for the cost of those people in health care and the like. The tax is essentially these people paying for their burden on society.

 

[Tech]

I think you and IS missed the key point I was making; that is that the high taxes on cigarettes and alcohol (insert bad item here) are paying for the cost of those people in health care and the like. The tax is essentially these people paying for their burden on society.

To be honest, I don't look at smokers and drinkers as burdens. So, maybe thats why I can't agree with your point.

Indeed, health care costs are out of control....but that has nothing to do with the unhealthy habits of Americans. Health care didn't start to become a problem until government became involved.

Interesting article about the health insurance industry: http://www.bestsyndication.com/2005/Nicole-WILSON/081005-HMO-Plan-History.htm

 

[tim290280]

To be honest, I don't look at smokers and drinkers as burdens. So, maybe thats why I can't agree with your point.

Indeed, health care costs are out of control....but that has nothing to do with the unhealthy habits of Americans. Health care didn't start to become a problem until government became involved.

Interesting article about the health insurance industry: http://www.bestsyndication.com/2005/Nicole-WILSON/081005-HMO-Plan-History.htm

You mean wasn't a problem for people who could afford a $200,000 leukemia treatment, or could mortgage their's and their family's future to pay the bills.

I swear by private health insurance, but it is a bit out of the reach of a fair proportion of society. If govt doesn't support them then you have a lot of people who can't afford to have basic health care or opperations (and thus stop contributing to society).

 

[Tech]

You mean wasn't a problem for people who could afford a $200,000 leukemia treatment, or could mortgage their's and their family's future to pay the bills.

I swear by private health insurance, but it is a bit out of the reach of a fair proportion of society. If govt doesn't support them then you have a lot of people who can't afford to have basic health care or opperations (and thus stop contributing to society).

no no no. Prior to the US government directly involving itself in the healthcare industry, things were going well.

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=474

The HMO Act of 1973 requires all but the smallest employers to offer their employees HMO coverage, and the tax code allows businesses- but not individuals- to deduct the cost of health insurance premiums. The result is the illogical coupling of employment and health insurance, which often leaves the unemployed without needed catastrophic coverage.

The lesson is clear: when government and other third parties get involved, health care costs spiral. The answer is not a system of outright socialized medicine, but rather a system that encourages everyone- doctors, hospitals, patients, and drug companies- to keep costs down. As long as “somebody else” is paying the bill, the bill will be too high.

 

[Ironslave]

I think you and IS missed the key point I was making; that is that the high taxes on cigarettes and alcohol (insert bad item here) are paying for the cost of those people in health care and the like. The tax is essentially these people paying for their burden on society.

Nope. Mentioned in my post: If they end up getting lung cancer later in life due to smoking 2 packs a day, then they're the ones who suffer the consequences and should have the burden to pay for their medical costs.

Socialized health care is a disaster. People can afford to buy houses, cars, massive insurance for both of these,TV's/computers, clothes, and whatever else... what makes health care any different?

Part of the reason these treatments are so expensive is because there is so little competition/innovation. But regardless.... if you're driving drunk, and you crash your Ferrari which costs $100,000 to fix... should the government pay for that? It's still taking money from others, and personally, I don't wish to pay the medical bills of someone who is reckless with their health. But at the same time, it is their right to live their life as they wish, just don't expect me to want to pay for the consequences of their actions.

 

[MrChewiebitums]

Could you be any more dramatic?

Many bars are smoke free, and as a private bar, it's their right.

You're worried about a bit of cigarette smoke when there are factories like this?

i hate those too, just becuase i didnt mention doesnt mean i dont care.

i hate all forms of pollution.

and its not a bit of smoke, here everyone fuckin smokes along with the fact that we are in the top 5 for the highest obsesity thing and we have a lot of pollution for the insanely inefficient public transport system

honest to god here we have problems with the hospital, the times for the waiting lists are sky high and its a major problem.