Carbon Trading Explained.

[tim290280]

^^ I'm more concerned about the fact that a lot of the supposed offsets are BS.

Trees - BS. They take too long to accumulate CO2.
Soil - BS. Not recognised, not measureable, not stable.
Solar - Would be nice. Supplies SFA and only good during the day and can't supply power peaks like a generator.
Wind - Would be nice. But ditto Solar.
Tidal - Would be nice. No investment.
Emmission reductions - BS. That's why they want trading, so they don't have to get more efficient.

The list goes on.

 

[pegasus]

Geothermal should be the way to go I think..

 

[tim290280]

^^ It's another that fits the "it would be nice" bill. Most of the time it is too far off the grid in Australia, don't know about other countries.

We really should have been investigating these options ten years ago. Well more seriously at least.

We had a great tidal power engineering project go to Holland from Aust. Holland has nothing in terms of tides and wave action compared to us. No one would fund it here.

 

[German_Joe]

as long as they stop ethanol/bio diesel production..... terrible emmissions, inefficient fuel, raises food prices = lame

 

[Ryeland]

^^ It's another that fits the "it would be nice" bill. Most of the time it is too far off the grid in Australia, don't know about other countries.

We really should have been investigating these options ten years ago. Well more seriously at least.

We had a great tidal power engineering project go to Holland from Aust. Holland has nothing in terms of tides and wave action compared to us. No one would fund it here.

Tidal power is not as effective as one might think. In order to have anything near the amount of production capacity to be viable for large groups of people the size of the dam required to be built is massive. Its a very interesting technology, but for the production numbers required its simply not feasible for current generation requirements.

Geothermal has the capacity to take a lot of load of the grid through its use as heat pumps in homes, not as electricity generation. A ground exchange heat pump system can save anywhere between 50 - 70% (or more if really advanced) on heating and A/C energy. During the summer months the ability to reduce the electrical load generated by A/C systems is a big deal.

No one technology is going to save us. We need to make efficient use of the technologies we have at our disposal. More effective insulation. Intelligent tree planting (to shade houses in summer and deflect wind in winter). More low flow shower heads and toilets. Double and triple pane windows. Public transit.

If you really want to make a difference now, for the future start adopting the technologies we already have. Future developments are exciting, i love R&D, but we have some badass stuff right now.

Solar panels for electricity generation are cool, but solar collectors to supply heat can be far more cost effective, and reliable.

The simple changes made around homes and offices will make the biggest difference in the short to moderate term. It also shows the market that there is money to be made in being efficient.

Just my two cents

 

[pegasus]

speaking of solar panels, last year I heard a company developed a type of spray on solar panel which work well even when there's clouds covering the sun.

http://news.nationalgeographic.co.uk/news/2005/01/0114_050114_solarplastic.html

Like you guys say, no one technology will suit every ones needs, but a mixtures of all these technologies, along with carbon capture, natural gas etc will all help reduce pollution.

 

[skindnef]

Tidal power is not as effective as one might think. In order to have anything near the amount of production capacity to be viable for large groups of people the size of the dam required to be built is massive. Its a very interesting technology, but for the production numbers required its simply not feasible for current generation requirements.

Thoughts on Wave Power ? Thought it looked more promising.

 

[tim290280]

Tidal power is not as effective as one might think. In order to have anything near the amount of production capacity to be viable for large groups of people the size of the dam required to be built is massive. Its a very interesting technology, but for the production numbers required its simply not feasible for current generation requirements.

Actually an Australian engineer came up with a brilliant tidal power generator that also distills water. It doesn't require dams of any sort. It acts like a reef break with the wave energy creating mechanical energy against a floating reef. The "reef" moves up and down creating power. Brilliant idea, apparently needs a few bugs ironed out with some large scale prototypes. And it was such a great idea that no-one gave him any funding, green groups protested against it (because it would be like bad for fish, which he was sure it wouldn't be, but wanted to test), and he ended up taking it to Holland.

The example you're thinking of has only worked in a couple of places that have huge tidal variation and a natural dam of some sort. And I agree that just isn't practical.

Geothermal has the capacity to take a lot of load of the grid through its use as heat pumps in homes, not as electricity generation. A ground exchange heat pump system can save anywhere between 50 - 70% (or more if really advanced) on heating and A/C energy. During the summer months the ability to reduce the electrical load generated by A/C systems is a big deal.

I agree. But is there any that are close enough to the electricity grids? I know here in Aust ours are prohibitively expensive due to location.

No one technology is going to save us. We need to make efficient use of the technologies we have at our disposal. More effective insulation. Intelligent tree planting (to shade houses in summer and deflect wind in winter). More low flow shower heads and toilets. Double and triple pane windows. Public transit.

Good points.

I was amazed at the amount of energy that is wasted keeping cities warm in winter in the USA. Piping steam around the city is such a crap way to do things. Heat loss from that is just huge.

If you really want to make a difference now, for the future start adopting the technologies we already have. Future developments are exciting, i love R&D, but we have some badass stuff right now.

I feel rep points in the air.

Solar panels for electricity generation are cool, but solar collectors to supply heat can be far more cost effective, and reliable.

We have solar hot water here. And some houses are actually designed to utilise the sun in winter and not so much in summer. But we can do so much more. Although there is solar cell technology in development that is looking promising. I think California is trying it out now.

The simple changes made around homes and offices will make the biggest difference in the short to moderate term. It also shows the market that there is money to be made in being efficient.

Just my two cents

Yeh I'm still trying to get the missus to turn off lights around the house and not stand there with the fridge door open for ages deciding what she wants to eat.

But you see heaps of waste happen all the time around us. If only people would be more proactive.

 

[tim290280]

speaking of solar panels, last year I heard a company developed a type of spray on solar panel which work well even when there's clouds covering the sun.

http://news.nationalgeographic.co.uk/news/2005/01/0114_050114_solarplastic.html

Like you guys say, no one technology will suit every ones needs, but a mixtures of all these technologies, along with carbon capture, natural gas etc will all help reduce pollution.

Carbon capture is a pipe dream.

Everyone keeps referring to it in relation to coal and gas. Yet it hasn't been used outside of oil wells (where they use it to displace the oil, not store it) and isn't a viable prospect.

I had heard something about that solar panel. I'll give it a read, thanks

 

[Hypocrisy86]

solar panels that store energy not only for day but also night.
collects solar energy, and when night time comes the energy it stored can be used,
1 to 2 panels, or so.

 

[tim290280]

^^ They use batteries for that. Or they feed into the grid and generators pick up the slack at night. Solar cells by their nature can't store energy.

 

[lifterdead]

Damn.

Just wrote a lengthy post on the vast inadequacies of solar/wind power then lost it.

(sigh)


I'll be back later.

 

[Ryeland]

Actually an Australian engineer came up with a brilliant tidal power generator that also distills water. It doesn't require dams of any sort. It acts like a reef break with the wave energy creating mechanical energy against a floating reef. The "reef" moves up and down creating power. Brilliant idea, apparently needs a few bugs ironed out with some large scale prototypes. And it was such a great idea that no-one gave him any funding, green groups protested against it (because it would be like bad for fish, which he was sure it wouldn't be, but wanted to test), and he ended up taking it to Holland.

Very cool, I didn't know about this. Got any links to articles on how this works? I am very interested now.

I agree. But is there any that are close enough to the electricity grids? I know here in Aust ours are prohibitively expensive due to location.

I meant to say that it takes the load off of the electrical grid. Geothermal heat pump systems are fantastic ways to save energy. I have plenty of links and in fact have written a few reports if anyone is particularly interested. This technology is widely implemented and reliable and can save you ton on heating and cooling bills. If you live near water its even better.

We have solar hot water here. And some houses are actually designed to utilise the sun in winter and not so much in summer. But we can do so much more. Although there is solar cell technology in development that is looking promising. I think California is trying it out now.

Yeh I'm still trying to get the missus to turn off lights around the house and not stand there with the fridge door open for ages deciding what she wants to eat.

But you see heaps of waste happen all the time around us. If only people would be more proactive.

Yeah my brother won't turn off lights, tv's, or computers to save his life. I should just start charging him a surcharge on the electricity bill.

I think people will get more proactive over time. The current generation is somewhat more environmentally aware compared to previous ones.

 

[Ryeland]

Thoughts on Wave Power ? Thought it looked more promising.

Wave power can be effective on a small scale. The problem is the frequency and amplitude of incoming waves. It would require a chance in generation methods. Also the floating platforms need to be certain sizes and buoyancies. They also need to have a certain rigidity and robustness. Its an excellent idea, but a wave of water is a very disorganized form of energy and therefore hard to efficiently harness.

 

[tim290280]

Very cool, I didn't know about this. Got any links to articles on how this works? I am very interested now.

Don't know if this is the one or not:
http://www.abc.net.au/water/stories/s1578192.htm
http://www.oceanlinx.com/works.asp
or was it this one:
http://www.ceto.com.au/ceto-technology/wave-farms.php

I remember the second one more.

 

[Ryeland]

Don't know if this is the one or not:
http://www.abc.net.au/water/stories/s1578192.htm
http://www.oceanlinx.com/works.asp
or was it this one:
http://www.ceto.com.au/ceto-technology/wave-farms.php

I remember the second one more.

That is an awesome idea. None of it is particularly new on its own, but the innovation there is astounding.

Thanks for the articles Tim, I would love to rep you, but i gotta spread the love around before i can.