Debate challenge: Ironslave vs. Rageking's sister (Paul vs. Obama)

[The Creator]

I think that marijuana should be legal over alcohol for sure. I wouldnt strongly disagree with the legalization of marijuana. And I do agree that that should be up to the states, although we may have a lot of people "re-locating" if that were the case!

 

[TJ]

I guess, to me, ending the war on drugs would be like a parent giving in to their child when he or she just wont stop screaming for some candy. I see it as giving in to crime just because it would be "easier and cheaper". I think a bar has been set that drugs will not be tolerated and I dont think that bar should be moved. Sure it would be easier and cheaper, but from my point of view I see it as a good thing. Sure we will never be able to stop it all and obviously there will always be those who rebel the rules and laws but I see giving into them as a sign of weekness. Just my opinion.

This is a horrible analogy. There are rapists and murderers getting out early because there is not enough room in prisons right now. New prisons are being built to house these non-violent "criminals" who were in possession of some sort of drug. Millions of dollars are wasted to put people in jail and fund the war on drugs yet, have people stopped doing drugs? Have drug dealers stopped popping up? I realize it is your opinion but the war on drugs really bothers me because of all of the money wasted on it.

 

[Clint]

hope.




:io:

 

[Braaq]

I think that marijuana should be legal over alcohol for sure. I wouldnt strongly disagree with the legalization of marijuana. And I do agree that that should be up to the states, although we may have a lot of people "re-locating" if that were the case!

i would

 

[The Creator]

This is a horrible analogy. There are rapists and murderers getting out early because there is not enough room in prisons right now. New prisons are being built to house these non-violent "criminals" who were in possession of some sort of drug. Millions of dollars are wasted to put people in jail and fund the war on drugs yet, have people stopped doing drugs? Have drug dealers stopped popping up? I realize it is your opinion but the war on drugs really bothers me because of all of the money wasted on it.

Horrible analogy? I dont see why it is. I dont agree with rapists and murderers getting out early but I do agree with the war on drugs...So are you saying that direct physical violence is the only crime worthy of incarceration? That is you opinion but I disagree. If you think that drugs are illegal just because we wanted another law and wanted to prevent people from getting fucked up, thats not it. Not that it always happens, but it is a fact that people tend to do some stupid shit when they are on drugs and that can even lead to violence. You say "millions of dollars are "wasted" to put people in jail and fund the war on drugs, yet have people stopped doing drugs?" Of course it is not going to "stop" completely, ever! And they never claim that it will but the FACT is, having drugs be illegal and the use and possesion a crime, the abundance is decreased dramatically! And I believe that is why we have the war on drugs and that is why people like myself support it. So is it money wasted as you say? I guess that is just an individuals point of view and ours happen to differ. I dont believe that there can be a definite right or wrong in this situation.

 

[Ironslave]

Horrible analogy? I dont see why it is. I dont agree with rapists and murderers getting out early but I do agree with the war on drugs...So are you saying that direct physical violence is the only crime worthy of incarceration? That is you opinion but I disagree. If you think that drugs are illegal just because we wanted another law and wanted to prevent people from getting fucked up, thats not it. Not that it always happens, but it is a fact that people tend to do some stupid shit when they are on drugs and that can even lead to violence. You say "millions of dollars are "wasted" to put people in jail and fund the war on drugs, yet have people stopped doing drugs?" Of course it is not going to "stop" completely, ever! And they never claim that it will but the FACT is, having drugs be illegal and the use and possesion a crime, the abundance is decreased dramatically! And I believe that is why we have the war on drugs and that is why people like myself support it. So is it money wasted as you say? I guess that is just an individuals point of view and ours happen to differ. I dont believe that there can be a definite right or wrong in this situation.

This is a position that can certainly be argued both ways. I personally feel millions of dollars are wasted, the prisons are over crowded which further wastes tax payer money. Without drug laws, there would be no drug dealers, and thus no drug related crimes. This would also seriously combat the "war on terrorism" since many terrorists fund their activities through drug dealing, same with many gangs.

As far as the laws keeping their abundance down, that might not necessarily be the case. For example, From 1972 to 1978, eleven states decriminalized marijuana possession (covering one-third of the US population) and 33 other states reduced punishment to probation with record erased after six months to one year. Yet, after 1978 marijuana use steadily declined for over a decade. Decriminalization did not increase marijuana use.

[National Research Council, "Informing America’s Policy On Illegal Drugs: What We Don’t Know Keeps Hurting Us" (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 2001), pp. 192-193.]


I'd highly recommend this site, where I got that above source from.

http://www.drugwardistortions.org/

 

[TJ]

So are you saying that direct physical violence is the only crime worthy of incarceration?

Please, point out where I said that violence is the only crime worth punishment; I am using it as an example. It is a fact that people who commit horrible crimes are getting out early because the jails do not have room for them.

If you think that drugs are illegal just because we wanted another law and wanted to prevent people from getting fucked up, thats not it. Not that it always happens, but it is a fact that people tend to do some stupid shit when they are on drugs and that can even lead to violence.

So, alcohol is okay? More people act violent when drunk than when high.

You say "millions of dollars are "wasted" to put people in jail and fund the war on drugs, yet have people stopped doing drugs?" Of course it is not going to "stop" completely, ever! And they never claim that it will but the FACT is, having drugs be illegal and the use and possesion a crime, the abundance is decreased dramatically! And I believe that is why we have the war on drugs and that is why people like myself support it. So is it money wasted as you say? I guess that is just an individuals point of view and ours happen to differ. I dont believe that there can be a definite right or wrong in this situation.

I would feel far more comfortable paying taxes to put thieves, violent offenders, rapists, etc in jail than putting someone who decided to get high on the weekend. The amount of drugs and drug dealers has not decreased. Sure, some people are arrested and put in jail but there is always someone who wants to make a quick buck. I am not for legalized all drugs but there are certainly quite a few that should be legal and should be left to the individual to decide what to put in their body. Personal responsibility should be left up to each person; the government does not need to baby sit everyone.

I understand it is your opinion and I respect that so do not take this personaly or anything.

EDIT: Thing is, I am not for having some scum of the earth make drugs and selling them. I believe something like this would have to be regulated by the government to secure sanitation and what not. Plus, they could tax it = lots of money for the government.

 

[The Creator]

I never said that I think alcohol is any better than drugs. But I do believe that we are at an understanding with the situation. Personal beliefs aside, I think we agree on the basics that some major drugs should be kept illegal as well as the dirtbags that come along with them!

 

[Tech]

Proof that the drug war is completely out of control, I present to you the arrest of Tommy Chong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Chong#Legal_trouble

He was put in prison because he owned his sons website which sold drug paraphernalia (aka bongs/pipes). He wasn't selling drugs. He was selling glass pipes. Nine months in a federal prison.

Yet, people can get arrested 15 times for drunk driving and never spend one day in federal prison.

 

[The Creator]

Proof that the drug war is completely out of control, I present to you the arrest of Tommy Chong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Chong#Legal_trouble

He was put in prison because he owned his sons website which sold drug paraphernalia (aka bongs/pipes). He wasn't selling drugs. He was selling glass pipes. Nine months in a federal prison.

Yet, people can get arrested 15 times for drunk driving and never spend one day in federal prison.

That is crazy! I can go to a head shop near here and get bongs and pipes. I completely agree that it needs modification.

 

[Tech]

That is crazy! I can go to a head shop near here and get bongs and pipes. I completely agree that it needs modification.

if you read more about it, you find out the police set him up simply because of who he was. if I remember correctly, the police ordered from his website from a city in which sales of bongs is illegal just so they could arrest him.

if you ever have a couple hours to kill, I suggest watching this movie:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1033467/


even Ron Paul is in for a few seconds.

 

[Flex]

I'm gonna look for that video Tech, thanks.

 

[Tech]

http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_020708_news_marijuana_sentence.9bbc1c5f.html

A man arrested for an indoor marijuana growing operation after a county worker smelled the illegal plant on a tax payment has been sentenced to 16 months in prison.

Read the article, then ask youself...."Who did he hurt?"

 

[German_Joe]

he caused mild discomfort to the man who smelled the paper, fuck tech think about somebody else for a change:angrydude:

 

[TJ]

I never said that I think alcohol is any better than drugs. But I do believe that we are at an understanding with the situation. Personal beliefs aside, I think we agree on the basics that some major drugs should be kept illegal as well as the dirtbags that come along with them!

I agree that an average waste of life should not be allowed to make and/or sell drugs. But, I do not think any drugs should be illegal as I am very big on personal responsibility.