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Don't blame me....

Ironslave

Ironslave

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EX. yes, he voted "NO" to sending Fed. aid to the Katrina survivors That is on record. He also casted a "NO" vote on speeding up approval for forrest thinning projects. He also, scored a 5%by the league of conservative voters on the Environment all this is on record.

Did you read the links I posted though? He thought most of the money would go to FEMA, and it would get wasted and not end up in the hands of those who needed it, and he was absolutely right!! Big government always gives a one size fits all handout to other government agencies, who just fuck things up.


The environment stuff is just so pointless when you consider his big policies, which he dominates on (economy he is miles ahead, also the war, health care which would satisfy most people). For one, the League of Conservative voters is a complete joke. Just because he doesn't want to waste taxpayer money to fund more government agencies to do "research" and come up with "solutions" to environmental issues (which they never do) doesn't mean he's anti environment.

For example, in one of the debates, he was asked if he would support California's proposal to pay heavier fines for those who polute. Here was his response:

"Yes, California should do what they want. When we're dealing with the environment and greenhouse gases, [it's] property rights. We neglected during the industrial revolution property rights, and governments and big corporations got together and colluded."

That seems pretty fair to me that the local and state governments regulate what occurs, instead of huge federal government programs that attempt to oversee everything in all the states with cookie cutter programs.

Did you read the forrest thinning bill?

The bill would authorize $760 million a year from fiscal 2004 to fiscal 2008. The Bureau of Land Management and the US Forest Service would have the authorization to remove vegetation that could cause or assist the spread of wildfires, disease or insect infestation

it gives more taxpayer money, and more control to government bureaucracies, the last thing they need. In fact, for the 4 years, thats over 3 BILLION dollars! would you really argue that this agency is worth the 3 billion dollars for 4 years? Especially considering the out of control national debt?

Thats the problem with the democrats, especially Obama. He supports everything that "sounds good", and doesn't have any fiscal responsibility. He promises everyone everything, and the sad thing is, I actually believe that he means it, but he has no idea about where to get the money for it. He'll either hike up taxes, or the Fed will print more money.


And lastly, yes i am a Dem. History will speak for me on this. This country has made the most progress under a dem. Now, i know some die hards out there will say this is not true! They will say Ronald Reagen was the best pres. But they don't know of what they speak. He was just as big a crook as this guy! only, he had people around him that were smart enough to lie, and shield what he was doing. Remember the Iran Contra affair. Also, who gave Hussein those chemical weapons to use on the kurds. Also, who was responsible for training the muja haiden when they were fighting the soviet union in Afghanistan in the 80's. And, who was the leader of the muja haiden. Osama Bin Laden! But conveniently that is not mentioned by the press why. Cause they all kiss the ring of the Reps.

First, I completely agree with you about Reagan.

But as for the most progress being made with the dems, no not necessarily. Bill Clinton was president during a time when Greenspan' inflation of the money supply was prevalent, thus, sure, there was prosperity for a while. But think of it like this, if I as an individual borrow a million dollars a month for a year, I could be living large for a while. However, eventually, I'm going to have to pay it back, plus interest, and if I've wasted the money, I'm in SERIOUS trouble. Same with Clinton, it takes time for the market to adjust, but it does, and it's doing it right now. This time period was a major reason for the housing bubble which is going on now, and it just sucks because the dollar has lost so much purchasing power.

Going back further, it was on Woodrow Wilson's watch where the Federal Reserve was created. They financed his campaign greatly in 1913, and he was nothing more than a puppet for the banking organizations who could use their influence to get him elected, which they did. Anyways, many years later he said

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country.
A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit.
Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation,
therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men.
We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely
controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world.
No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by
conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by
the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."


From that, current chairman of the Fed, Bernanke, has admitted to economist Milton Friedman (Ron Paul supporter :) ) that the Fed was the reason for the cause of the Great Depression! Friedman made him realize that the Fed caused it, and Bernanke vowed not to let it happen again.


One of the major reasons FDR wanted WW2 so bad was to get America out of the depression (this is another topic for another day), but FDR, a democrat, pretty well did everything but call up the Emperor of Japan and say "please attack us, thanks", in order to get America in the war. Truman, another democrat, was the one who dropped the bombs unnecessarily, which killed over a million people.

Anyways, Im getting off on a tangent, but don't think that the democrats will be better with the economy, because it's not true. Overall, I think it's kind of silly to pick apart Ron Paul's misunderstood votes on issues such as the environment, when you look at the bigger issues. Hilary voted FOR the war, and she's a democrat. Obama has voted to fund it every single time.
 
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rick ramirezsublime

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IS, Funny thing, i just made that point last night about Truman! I forget why. But, that came up!

okay. we agree to disagree. What are you studying to be a lawyer?? or something!

Hey, for brevity, im gonna keep this short cause, I'm tired (and know you are)too! of typing "im no secretary".

But, how 'bout those Lakers!!!!:keke:
 
Ironslave

Ironslave

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IS, Funny thing, i just made that point last night about Truman! I forget why. But, that came up!

okay. we agree to disagree. What are you studying to be a lawyer?? or something!

Hey, for brevity, im gonna keep this short cause, I'm tired (and know you are)too! of typing "im no secretary".

But, how 'bout those Lakers!!!!:keke:

Oh I can go on and on about Ron Paul for ages. :wutyousay: What do you disagree with tho, and who do you support?

I'm actually a grad student in the medical field, I just picked this up in the last year because I'm against the war.
 
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rick ramirezsublime

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Outstanding!! thought you were a computer there for a bit:xyxthumbs:
You've got a lot of info. bro, i will confess!!!
I'm going with Obama. Cannot vote for the party of the worst prez. in history!! So,you got into politics cause your against the war. Man, tell me this is a dream were living cause i could have thought those exact words were said, orig. in the 60's. At least as far back as i can recall. So, we agree on that and, we must find common ground with people. right?:tiphat: This is what drives my reasoning also.
 
Ironslave

Ironslave

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it just sucks that Ron Paul isn't going to be on the ballot... I mean, unless one of Ron's crazy supporters were to take one for the team and suddenly exercise their second amendment rights on McCain and Romney... man, that would be just awful. :hmmm:
 
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rick ramirezsublime

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Yeah, he wouldn't be a hard target to miss!! old coot:techn9ne:
 
Braaq

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Outstanding!! thought you were a computer there for a bit:xyxthumbs:
You've got a lot of info. bro, i will confess!!!
I'm going with Obama. Cannot vote for the party of the worst prez. in history!! So,you got into politics cause your against the war. Man, tell me this is a dream were living cause i could have thought those exact words were said, orig. in the 60's. At least as far back as i can recall. So, we agree on that and, we must find common ground with people. right?:tiphat: This is what drives my reasoning also.

That is the worst possible reason to vote for someone or for a particular party. Which is also why most Americans should not be able to vote because they too make such ignorant decisions. It shows a complete lack of understanding of government and politics and that type of terrible voting is what is destroying this country and showing the failure of democracy. For such an intelligent person I am surprised you are falling into the same category.
Your allowing yourself to be fooled like the rest of America that Obama and the Democrats are going to "change" things and put us in a different direction. :49: even typing that makes me lol :49: They are playing off of most Americans ignorance
 
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rick ramirezsublime

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so your saying i should vote for the party of bush!:methman:
 

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Braaq

Braaq

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so your saying i should vote for the party of bush!:methman:

No I am saying you should vote for an intelligent and more legitimate reason rather than because Bush is from that party. That is such an ignorant view of a typical Bush hater who apparently has not educated themselves on politics and this election. You don't seem that way from your posts, but you sound like it with some of your comments.
 
Duality

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so your saying i should vote for the party of bush!:methman:



dude you took three steps forward in this thread with your intelligent thoughtful posts, and you just took 3 steps back with such an ignorant, juvenile view of the republican party. it's the same as saying "i'm not voting for Ron Paul, he's another republican from Texas, and we know what happens when they get elected" that is so stupid and ignorant anyone who thinks as such should be stripped of their ability to vote.
 
Ironslave

Ironslave

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so your saying i should vote for the party of bush!:methman:

Come on, how can a bright guy say this? You'd support Hilary if by chance she was the nominee, even though she voted for the war (claiming her "experience" made it the right call), yet RP voted against it, spoke out in Congress against it, went on TV and spoke against it? He's THE most honest politician that has ever lived. This "Im voting the color blue" is so pathetic, it's one of the many things wrong with America.

Do you think for a second that Bush's cronies (Sr's, Jr. is a crony himself) want to even acknowledge Ron Paul? Did you watch the clip I posted where he basically named the prominent neo-cons who are ruining America?

Most of the Republicans and Democrats are like siblings, they may fight from time to time, but then they'll make compromises which make both happy, because they're still the same family.
 
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rick ramirezsublime

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Well, I was wondering when this thread would go from sublime to the ridiculous!. I knew eventually peoples true nature would eventually show through! That must have been a pretty large rock! And absolutely, why would I vote to replace the worst prez. in history, with possibly an even worse prez. in history! This, makes no sense but, then again, i'm not the gregarious 1! If, for some reason, you guy's want to debate the next prez. with someone thats not even running for prez. there is no debate there!
There is only 2 men here, who actually expressed their very own ideas, the rest of you are just being gregarious, why? he ain't gonna pay your
mortgage!:wutyousay:
I don't wanna sound grandiloquent, but wouldn't that make you as guilty of this ignorance of which you speak:jerkoff1:
Now, i am not going to revert to my childhood and, throw insults back and forth, cause i'm a little to old for that! So, if that makes you feel better, maybe you guy's should head into your nearest recruiters station sign up to go to Iraq, Afghan., matbe even Iran and, if you read "PNAC" a couple of more states in the midd. east. And, we can see how tough you really are!!!
 
Ironslave

Ironslave

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Well, I was wondering when this thread would go from sublime to the ridiculous!.

It did when you said that you "won't vote for the party of George Bush".

I knew eventually peoples true nature would eventually show through!
That must have been a pretty large rock!

What are you talking about dude? :dunnodude:

And absolutely, why would I vote to replace the worst prez. in history, with possibly an even worse prez. in history! This, makes no sense but, then again, i'm not the gregarious 1! If, for some reason, you guy's want to debate the next prez. with someone thats not even running for prez. there is no debate there!

Ron Paul is worse? If you're saying John McCain, I fully agree with you.

There is only 1, guy here, who actually expressed his very own ideas, the rest of you are just being gregarious, why? he ain't gonna pay your
mortgage!:wutyousay:
I don't wanna sound grandiloquent, but wouldn't that make you as guilty of this ignorance of which you speak:jerkoff1:
Now, i am not going to revert to my childhood and, throw insults back and forth, cause i'm a little to old for that! So, if that makes you feel better, maybe you guy's should head into your nearest recruiters station sign up to go to Iraq, Afghan., matbe even Iran and, if you read "PNAC" a couple of more states in the midd. east. And, we can see how tough you really are!!!


I really have no idea where all this came from, or what you mean. Im pretty sure everyone in this thread is against the war, the same war that Obama has voted for funding increases pretty well every time. Nobody threw any insults at all dude, just relax.
 
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rick ramirezsublime

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Yeah, I guess your right!!! IS, but am I wrong!?:wutyousay:

Refering to the guys who all of a sudden thought it would be funny to start casting dispersions and insults. Like middle schoolers! I can do this too. But,i wont cause, the unlettered always show themselves!

Yes, talking about McSame....We know Ron Paul would have been a much better choice. A million x better! But, this is what i'm talking about, Why is McSame the Rep. choice? Because, this war is supposed to continue! That is why R P, recieved such little attention. Why, is that so hard to understand, i don't know!

IS, I know you weren't being disrespectful, it was those other deluded guy's who don't realize, that when you point a finger at someone you have 3 poiting back at you!

Obama, yes voted to keep funding the war, yes. But, we must realize this was to support, feed, equip, and pay our troops. Bush, Mcsame won't even support a G.I. bill for the troops? come on guy's there is a disconnect in this country! Not, a Red or blue football team!!!

If, by any chance there was a 3rd party, and R P was on that said ticket, then, that would be a different ball of wax. Can I get an amen on that!:angrydude:
 
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