Havoc

[Achilles]

What do you guys think of it? If you used it what type of results did you get? Did you use PCT? Did you experience any side effects?

 

[Workingatit46]

I gained 11 lbs and kept 9 lbs after pct. With proper diet and training these are the type of gains you can expect also nice strength gains. There are sides it drys the heck out of your joints and I lost some hair. Alot of people complain of back pumps.

This is a oral steriod you need to take support supps. Cycle Support and preload it 10-14 days before you start and continue while your on cycle. PCT is a must. Although it is possible to run a OTC PCT with this I would recommend low dosed Nolva 20/20/10/10 with some Post Cyle Support and you should be good.

Cycle Support

Post Cycle Support

I am not endorsing OTC PCT as there are only a few compounds I feel stronly about that a OTC PCT can be used(h-drol and some of the unmethylated compounds)here is a good link on it.

OTC PCT

 

[Achilles]

^^Working if you could choose a favorite pro-hormone/supplement to gain weight. Which one did you find best to use?

 

[Big04pimpin]

havoc is the best otc supp I have taken. Least side effects and good gains.

 

[Ironslave]

Repeat after me...

... I MUST use a PCT.

Good post by workingatit46, but, I'd opt for Toremifene instead of Nolva.

 

[theweapon]

ima start a havoc cycle in about a few weeks lets see how it goes, and n o ima not gonna start a log there are too many havoc logs we dont need anymore, ill just tell you what happens lol

 

[Achilles]

Repeat after me...

... I MUST use a PCT.

Good post by workingatit46, but, I'd opt for Toremifene instead of Nolva.

Why do you prefer Toremifene?

 

[Workingatit46]

Repeat after me...

... I MUST use a PCT.

Good post by workingatit46, but, I'd opt for Toremifene instead of Nolva.

Torem is very good and less liver toxic

 

[Workingatit46]

^^Working if you could choose a favorite pro-hormone/supplement to gain weight. Which one did you find best to use?

If we are talking legal steriods I would say M-drol. There are other double and triple steriod compounds but I would not touch them with a 10 foot pole.

If this is a 1st or 2nd cycle stay far away from M-drol the sides can be very harsh and no OTC PCT is enough for this compound.

 

[Ironslave]

Torem is very good and less liver toxic

Yep... and it's probably stronger at getting "the boys" back up as well.

 

[Achilles]

How "safe" is havoc. And what are the other possebility's?

 

[Achilles]

Anyone..?

 

[Big04pimpin]

How safe are steroids? No one really knows a ton on long term effects, specially these designer steroids since there are no long term studies being done. I would consider it safe as long as you watch your blood pressure and other vitals. Be smart when your taking it and pay attention to your body and you will be fine.

 

[The Creator]

^^Havoc is very "safe" in terms of orals. Keep the dose reasonable (2-4 caps a day) and I would keep the cycle very short, 4 weeks max. In terms of sides, Havoc has virtually none when done correctly. Keep in mind that any oral you do will be hard on the liver and this is something that you wont be able to feel.

 

[Workingatit46]

It is one of the safer 17A methyl steriods. With proper supports and a good pct it can be run safely. I would also keep it to 4 weeks some run it up to 6 I do not suggest that. I also agree it should not be run over 40mg.

The biggest thing IMO as to if these are safe or not is giving your body a proper break in between the cycles. I would not run more than 2 desiginer cycles per year.

 

[Big04pimpin]

It is one of the safer 17A methyl steriods. With proper supports and a good pct it can be run safely. I would also keep it to 4 weeks some run it up to 6 I do not suggest that. I also agree it should not be run over 40mg.

The biggest thing IMO as to if these are safe or not is giving your body a proper break in between the cycles. I would not run more than 2 desiginer cycles per year.

The proper time between cycles can be debated till your blue in the face but I guess time on = time off for orals would be a good rule of thumb if your not getting blood work done and want to be reasonably safe.

 

[philosopher]

This may sound weird but I would be scared to take these designer steroids. They dont know what the effects will be on long term. With steroids this is different. Most of them have propper research data and there is a lot of experience info on the net. Imo if you wanna try something your better off with roids since both are bad but roids have propper info.

Dunno if this is correct but this is how I feel.

 

[Big04pimpin]

This may sound weird but I would be scared to take these designer steroids. They dont know what the effects will be on long term. With steroids this is different. Most of them have propper research data and there is a lot of experience info on the net. Imo if you wanna try something your better off with roids since both are bad but roids have propper info.

Dunno if this is correct but this is how I feel.

Well, there is research on most of the compounds out there. Most of these designer steroids are from the 50's and 60's so there are some research on it but not as much as main stream Test E or Cyp so I could see your point.

 

[philosopher]

Well, there is research on most of the compounds out there. Most of these designer steroids are from the 50's and 60's so there are some research on it but not as much as main stream Test E or Cyp so I could see your point.

Just curious what you would advise, If you are a beginner and want to start with enhancing products like roids (fist cycle) or designer steroids what would you advise? Designer or not? And if so what type of designer steroid?

 

[Big04pimpin]

Just curious what you would advise, If you are a beginner and want to start with enhancing products like roids (fist cycle) or designer steroids what would you advise? Designer or not? And if so what type of designer steroid?

Its hard to advise on a question like that. I am only doing "legal" designer steroids now because I might become a police officer and I can't have taken anything illegal for 3 years.

Now if you are in it for the long run, go ahead and use the real thing and start taking HRT. Thats your best bet but if your just looking to see how/what its like to be on steroids and not sure if its for you then a cheap designer cycle like Havoc is a decent choice. There is nothing to replace a first cycle like 500mgs of Test E or Cyp but if you go ahead with Havoc that means no needles, no illegal activity, no having to find legit sources and a lot less worries on your part(a lot of fakes out now too). They both have pros and cons so you have to decide for yourself.