Help with Dept. Educ.

[Arcane1129]

I'm looking for some help to persuade my history teacher why scrapping the department of education is a good idea. I have not really heard much discussion on this and I'm not not too familiar with the topic, so I look to you guys.

Any good articles?

 

[Arcane1129]

Oops, I meant to post this in the politics section. Could one of the mods/admins move it?

 

[TJ]

http://www.cato.org/research/articles/gryphon-040211.html

"The Federal government has no constitutional authority to be involved in school curricula or to control jobs in the market place. This is why we will abolish the Department of Education."

 

[Ironslave]

The DoE was established around 1980, and schools have pretty well gone to complete shit since. The problem is Federal Government cookie cutter programs, without one, there is more funding and control at the state and local level, look how much the "no child left behind" act has fucked things up.

Also, check this out, straight off the DoE's website:

http://www.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/role.html

Education is primarily a State and local responsibility in the United States. It is States and communities, as well as public and private organizations of all kinds, that establish schools and colleges, develop curricula, and determine requirements for enrollment and graduation. The structure of education finance in America reflects this predominant State and local role. Of an estimated $1 trillion being spent nationwide on education at all levels for school year 2007-2008, a substantial majority will come from State, local, and private sources. This is especially true at the elementary and secondary level, where just over 91 percent of the funds will come from non-Federal sources.

That means the Federal contribution to elementary and secondary education is a little under 9 percent, which includes funds not only from the Department of Education (ED) but also from other Federal agencies, such as the Department of Health and Human Services' Head Start program and the Department of Agriculture's School Lunch program.

9%?! Thats so tiny. The federal government will never have a program they don't reap massive profits from, getting rid of the federal DoE would cut tax payer dollars for every citizen.

Here's a post I found on ronpaul forums, the guy explains it very well.

If anything, there will be more money left to pay teachers without a Dept of Ed. Right now, the big pile of money starts out locally, and is sent to Washington.

There are costs associated with that, so the pile gets a little smaller.

The now smaller pile of money sits there in Washington, where bureaucrats count it, and weigh it, and argue over what to do with it. They have offices, and secretaries, and lunches and plane trips.

There are costs associated with all of that, and the pile gets smaller still.

Now the significantly reduced pile of money is redistributed...but not evenly or equally. In fact, some school districts might not even get the majority of their money back if they don't live up to the demands the Dept of Education has placed upon them. Squabbles result, lawyers are hired, tests are written and printed, and evaluated by the bureaucrats before the money can be released.

Which, of course, has now decimated the original pile of money.

The students suffer, their education prevents them from meeting their full potential, and they go out into the world with an inferior education and less earning power. Which of course, results in higher taxes and more intrusion by the federal government, and the cycle starts all over again.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/education/

This is a phenomenal article as well, be sure to pass it on.

http://www.newswithviews.com/DeWeese/tom99.htm

 

[TJ]

My moms a teacher and she hates the Department of Education with a passion; especially the No Child Left Behind Act. It's pretty sad to go back and get a Masters Degree for teaching and only recieve an additional $50 per pay check.

 

[The Creator]

^^ Likewise. My mom hates no child left behind

 

[Arcane1129]

Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I'm gonna combine some stuff and print off a sheet. We'll see what he thinks...Hillary supporter.

I have gotten him to go from "Ron Paul shouldn't even be mentioned" to "Ron Paul has a lot of good ideas, but not enough support and he still seems too out there for me."

 

[vike272000]

I am a teacher. Here is what it comes down to. Money! Each student gives the school money to teach that student. So student = $$$$$. When the student does well on a standardized test, the school gets more $$$$$. The DOE says that if your school is terrible with dumb students, then you will get less $$$$. With NCLB, if a school fails to get annual yearly progress, then that school will have x amount of years to fix it. If the school does not in (let's say) 5 years. Then the school will close. The problem is is that schools must progress and get better and better scores until 100% of students can be proficient at the test. This includes anyone with special needs and we are talking students who have no clue or no chance of passing. Teachers need to meet state requirements to be "highly qualified" and they only have a few years to get this. So everyone's mom who was a teacher for about 20 to 30 years has to take extra college credits to get this credential. Long story short DOE took the responsibility of parenting and placed it on the teacher. Sorry to rant. But I quit teaching a while over this subject.

 

[Ironslave]

I am a teacher. Here is what it comes down to. Money! Each student gives the school money to teach that student. So student = $$$$$. When the student does well on a standardized test, the school gets more $$$$$. The DOE says that if your school is terrible with dumb students, then you will get less $$$$. With NCLB, if a school fails to get annual yearly progress, then that school will have x amount of years to fix it. If the school does not in (let's say) 5 years. Then the school will close. The problem is is that schools must progress and get better and better scores until 100% of students can be proficient at the test. This includes anyone with special needs and we are talking students who have no clue or no chance of passing. Teachers need to meet state requirements to be "highly qualified" and they only have a few years to get this. So everyone's mom who was a teacher for about 20 to 30 years has to take extra college credits to get this credential. Long story short DOE took the responsibility of parenting and placed it on the teacher. Sorry to rant. But I quit teaching a while over this subject.

Good insight, thanks for sharing that. Repped.

 

[Tech]

It shouldn't be too shocking really. When the federal government gets involved in something, they completely fuck it up.