Obama supporter won't have to work to pay gas or mortgage

[Ironslave]

While I support Ron Paul and agree with many said comments about Obama, the above quote isn't the best argument against socialism. It's the kind of argument I might have made in the past.



The entire "if people worked hard, they could do it" is a little bit too much Horatio Alger. Many people struggle to make a living working 2-3 jobs, can't afford to get college loans, or are in no position to advance academically because of shitty public education. I'm no socialist, but a little socialism, done correctly can be beneficial.


Of course, I think the chick in the video has her up her ass, like most Obama supporters.

Yep, good points, though I'd still stand behind my points at large. You don't need a great schooling system to learn anything. 90% of what I've learned about physiology, and 100% of what ive learned about history and politics and such is self taught. Anyone can advance themselves if they want to, just like they can work through much of school and such, establish credit for loans and what not. Though i'd be inclined to agree that obviously not everyone can work to the point for paying 20k a year for college, but I'd like to see competing agencies there to offer student loans. I'm not sure if any pure organizations like this exist, or if the govt allows them to, but it'd be more efficient than a mass government cookie cutter program.

 

[Bulkboy]

Your life must be very blissful then.

Its a recession. We have them about every 12 years. Its part of having a county. However, in giving Obama a chance. No. I wouldn't give a rapist a chance with a 3 year old girl. I wouldn't give Iran a chance with nuclear weapons. I wouldn't give Obama a chance with my paycheck. Why allow someone who is determined to erase the class system a chance with my class? I like being middle class. I agree there are those of us who struggle, but Ill be damned if I am gonna have my taxes increase, or my bosses taxes increase so it can go directly into tax cuts for people who pay less taxes in the first place. I work hard for what I have. Rich people work hard for what they have. We pay our share. We are taxed higher in this generation then any other generation ever. If the democratic congress could get something accomplished and stop being so damn fruitful in their pork barrel spending, we might have some money to go around. You have to remember, the president has much just as much to do with the economy then the congress we all elected. Right now the 18% approval rated democratic congress is just as responsible, if not more then the president. The economy is suffering from a housing bubble burst, a technology flat line and a overseas boom. These were all foreseen economic disasters that clinton did nothing about. That the republican congress did nothing about. Bush did nothing, the democratic congress did nothing. Now were fucked for a while. Oh well, it happens. But electing a liberal radical into office with a democratic congress...yeah right... no checks... no balances.. It would be free reign and Obama would be the Communist Leader of the New Combined States of Obama-erica.

how is he determined to erase the class system? if anybody has been erasing the class system it must have been the current administration, where all income increase and all tax relief has gone to the wealthiest. the middle class is hurting, and obamas plan will indeed strenghten the middle class. hes got nothing against billionairs, he just wants to give the rest of the population a chance to climb the ladder. how is that wrong? if ur middle class then that is exactly a reason to vote for obama.

 

[TJ]

how is he determined to erase the class system? if anybody has been erasing the class system it must have been the current administration, where all income increase and all tax relief has gone to the wealthiest. the middle class is hurting, and obamas plan will indeed strenghten the middle class. hes got nothing against billionairs, he just wants to give the rest of the population a chance to climb the ladder. how is that wrong? if ur middle class then that is exactly a reason to vote for obama.

"Giving the rest of the population a chance" is wording the situation nicely just like "Paying higher taxes is patriotic." It's great Obama is about equality but he's taking it way too far.

Also, I think Obama's plan is more for the lower class than the middle.

 

[lifterdead]

Eh, I suppose that would vary depending on the area you live in. Some young kids have actually said, "I wana be like my daddy. He gets a check every month and doesn't do anything." I'd say parenting would have more to do with people working hard for goals than socialism, though.

Word. I definately agree about parenting.

That's a good point. Too many people already use the government as a crutch to lean on wanting them to put food on their table through our tax money instead or working for themselves. It's like throwing gas on the laziness fire.

Man, no matter how many times I hear statements like this, I go nuts. How do you back up statements like this? Are you going to use anecdotal evidence? Again, I agree with Ironslave and you on most points, but this just seems like a poor argument.

 

[Ironslave]

Man, no matter how many times I hear statements like this, I go nuts. How do you back up statements like this? Are you going to use anecdotal evidence? Again, I agree with Ironslave and you on most points, but this just seems like a poor argument.

I didn't say it, but I'll do so anyway.

Here in Canada, the oil industry and pretty well everything else in the province of Alberta is booming. Many people from all over go there to work.

I know it's n=1, but I know of several families where the husband goes and works there (and works his ass off), gets paid very well (6 figure salary), and usually works something like 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, etc. In many of these cases, the wives of these men don't declare the income their husband makes, or some other loophole, and as a result, pay low taxes and collect handouts.

I don't think he meant "all people who make less than 6 figures a year are lazy", because that's obviously it's not true. But, I think the problem is moreso that it provides less incentive for people to strive to achieve a good job, higher education and such, because they know that they'll be taken care of.

 

[lifterdead]

Here in Canada, the oil industry and pretty well everything else in the province of Alberta is booming. Many people from all over go there to work.

I know it's n=1, but I know of several families where the husband goes and works there (and works his ass off), gets paid very well (6 figure salary), and usually works something like 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, etc. In many of these cases, the wives of these men don't declare the income their husband makes, or some other loophole, and as a result, pay low taxes and collect handouts.

I don't think he meant "all people who make less than 6 figures a year are lazy", because that's obviously it's not true. But, I think the problem is moreso that it provides less incentive for people to strive to achieve a good job, higher education and such, because they know that they'll be taken care of.

I know there are some lazy people who abuse the system. I deal with them, too. But I also don't think they make up a large number, and certainly don't represent all those who receive government aid. I could just as easily use anecdotes to support my side of the argument, and cite cases where it has been needed and brought about a positive change.

Again, I see the point, I just think you need better support if you want to make a sound argument. In any case, I agree with you.