Randy Couture vs. Brock Lesnar

[CaptainCharisma]

 

[Ironslave]

lulz

What was wrong with that? I agree. A large part of Couture's game is clinching and Greco-Roman wrestling. I can't see him doing that against Brock, who's much bigger, faster, stronger, and probably the better wrestler (I know Couture is accomplished, but I'd give Brock the edge).

Randy isn't that great from his back, which is pretty well where I see the majority of the fight taking place. Lesnar can't yet really finish, so I'm saying him by decision, similar to the last fight against Herring.

 

[Chesticles]

What was wrong with that? I agree. A large part of Couture's game is clinching and Greco-Roman wrestling. I can't see him doing that against Brock, who's much bigger, faster, stronger, and probably the better wrestler (I know Couture is accomplished, but I'd give Brock the edge).

Randy isn't that great from his back, which is pretty well where I see the majority of the fight taking place. Lesnar can't yet really finish, so I'm saying him by decision, similar to the last fight against Herring.

There was nothing wrong with it, I just think a lot of people automatically think Couture will win when apart from experience Brock has a clear cut advantage.

 

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[Tonyk212000]

^ saw that on espn. Brock talks funny

Edit: is that in HD? Its really clear.

 

[Beau]

i'm curious...besides the HW division, which other division is the ufc lacking many top fighters?

HW- Fedor, Josh Barnett, Andrei Arlovski, Aleksander Emelianenko to name a few
LHW- This is the only division the UFC really has stacked with top tier fighters right now
Middleweight- Paulo Filho, Robbie Lawler, Matt Lindland
Welterweight- they got it pretty much covered except there missing Jake Shields, Carlos condit even though he's WEC
Lightweight- Missing to many... Takanori Gomi, Eddie Alvarez, Shinya Aoki, Joachim Hansen, Tatsuya Kawajiri, Gesias "JZ" Calvancante, Vitor "Shaolin" Ribeiro, Mitsuhiro Ishida, Josh Thomson, Chris horodecki

 

[JS316]

HW- Fedor, Josh Barnett, Andrei Arlovski, Aleksander Emelianenko to name a few
LHW- This is the only division the UFC really has stacked with top tier fighters right now
Middleweight- Paulo Filho, Robbie Lawler, Matt Lindland
Welterweight- they got it pretty much covered except there missing Jake Shields, Carlos condit even though he's WEC
Lightweight- Missing to many... Takanori Gomi, Eddie Alvarez, Shinya Aoki, Joachim Hansen, Tatsuya Kawajiri, Gesias "JZ" Calvancante, Vitor "Shaolin" Ribeiro, Mitsuhiro Ishida, Josh Thomson, Chris horodecki

+Sergei and Mayhem

 

[CaptainCharisma]

HW- Fedor, Josh Barnett, Andrei Arlovski, Aleksander Emelianenko to name a few
LHW- This is the only division the UFC really has stacked with top tier fighters right now
Middleweight- Paulo Filho, Robbie Lawler, Matt Lindland
Welterweight- they got it pretty much covered except there missing Jake Shields, Carlos condit even though he's WEC
Lightweight- Missing to many... Takanori Gomi, Eddie Alvarez, Shinya Aoki, Joachim Hansen, Tatsuya Kawajiri, Gesias "JZ" Calvancante, Vitor "Shaolin" Ribeiro, Mitsuhiro Ishida, Josh Thomson, Chris horodecki

Ok, but i still dont consider that a list on many top fighters. The only places where you can make an argument that they're lacking talent at HW, but it's not the barren division that everyone makes it seem like. The guys their lacking are as you mentioned Emelianenko, Barnett, Arlovski and Sylvia. I don't see A. Emelianenko as a top fighter, maybe in the past but not the in current MMA HW division. Look at the list of who they have; Couture, Gonzaga, Herring, Kongo, Mir, Nogueira and Werdum.

Then as for LW, yes there are a deccent amount of fighters in other orgs, but LW is also one of the most stacked divisions in MMA, i dobut any org will ever have even close to all the top names under one banner. But i think the UFC stable of LW's is pretty substantial, you have Aurelio, Diaz, Edgar, Fisher, Florian, Franca, Griffin, Guida, Maynard, Penn, Sherk, Stevenson, Tavares, Tibau and Wiman.

Plus all their other divisions are stacked. LHW has Evans, Franklin, Griffin, Jackson, Jardine, Liddell, Machida, Rua, W. Silva, T. Silva, Sokoudjou and Vera.

MW has Almeida, Bisping, Cote, Henderson, Kampmann, Leben, Marquardt, Okami, Reljic and then A. Silva.

And then WW has Alves, Chonnan, Fitch, Hughes, Koscheck, Parisyan, Sanchez and of course St. Pierre.

I can't think of a single other current org in MMA that has this amount of talent spread out over the weight classes. How is the UFC not the premiere MMA org in the MMA today?

 

[Hypocrisy86]

Oh if it isn't CC.

 

[JS316]

Ok, but i still dont consider that a list on many top fighters. The only places where you can make an argument that they're lacking talent at HW, but it's not the barren division that everyone makes it seem like. The guys their lacking are as you mentioned Emelianenko, Barnett, Arlovski and Sylvia. I don't see A. Emelianenko as a top fighter, maybe in the past but not the in current MMA HW division. Look at the list of who they have; Couture, Gonzaga, Herring, Kongo, Mir, Nogueira and Werdum.

Then as for LW, yes there are a deccent amount of fighters in other orgs, but LW is also one of the most stacked divisions in MMA, i dobut any org will ever have even close to all the top names under one banner. But i think the UFC stable of LW's is pretty substantial, you have Aurelio, Diaz, Edgar, Fisher, Florian, Franca, Griffin, Guida, Maynard, Penn, Sherk, Stevenson, Tavares, Tibau and Wiman.

Plus all their other divisions are stacked. LHW has Evans, Franklin, Griffin, Jackson, Jardine, Liddell, Machida, Rua, W. Silva, T. Silva, Sokoudjou and Vera.

MW has Almeida, Bisping, Cote, Henderson, Kampmann, Leben, Marquardt, Okami, Reljic and then A. Silva.

And then WW has Alves, Chonnan, Fitch, Hughes, Koscheck, Parisyan, Sanchez and of course St. Pierre.

I can't think of a single other current org in MMA that has this amount of talent spread out over the weight classes. How is the UFC not the premiere MMA org in the MMA today?

Man its taken a while to get a good MMA rant out of you...

good points.. totally agree

 

[Pickle]

if lesnar loses what will he do...
besides sable

 

[Beau]

I agree they have alot of talent...im just saying there missing some great fighters that would make for some interesting fights in there respective divisions. Some of the cards lately are lacking...lets be honest alot of these TUF fighters are over-rated and fed cans.

The middleweight division is weak....dont tell me its stacked with Leben, Cote (fellow canadian but isnt top 5 in the world) and Almeida. Anderson Silva needs a challenge...even though it might not exist lol!

 

[CaptainCharisma]

I agree they have alot of talent...im just saying there missing some great fighters that would make for some interesting fights in there respective divisions. Some of the cards lately are lacking...lets be honest alot of these TUF fighters are over-rated and fed cans.

The middleweight division is weak....dont tell me its stacked with Leben, Cote (fellow canadian but isnt top 5 in the world) and Almeida. Anderson Silva needs a challenge...even though it might not exist lol!

I don't think the MW division is weak. What comparrison makes the UFC's MW division look weak? If we are discussing legit and competitive fighters Almeida, Cote and Leben are definately in the mix.

On the other hand, lets say we are discussing Top 5 MW's. My Top 5 is pretty simular to the one on sherdog.com, with:

1) Anderson Silva
2) Paulo Filho
3) Rich Franklin
4) Dan Henderson
5) Yushin Okami

All 5 of these fighters are in the UFC (Filho is in WEC). Even if we go further on the list, names like Marquardt, Kampmann, Galesic, Jacare, Mousassi and Kang stick out. Two of those names are in the UFC, the others are currently in DREAM. The UFC MW division is stacked, the only reason it appears otherwise is Anderson Silva. If he was not in that division, the UFC's MW division would be much more exciting and competitive. But that shit ain't the truth. That bad motherfucker is in that division. There is nothing to compare the UFC MW division to, maybe DREAM, but its too early to make that comparison.

I understand that A. Silva has what looks like 0 challengers to his title. The UFC has the majority of top MW's the world, the vast majority. Stacked as a description for the MW division maybe overkill, but at the same time, compared to any other MW division that exists in current MMA, it is stacked.

 

[Beau]

good points....anderson silva is a nightmare no doubt

 

[Paulie]

I honestly don't see Couture coming out of this alive....

 

[Beau]

I honestly don't see Couture coming out of this alive....

LOL your delusional...don't buy into the hype that is brock lesnar. Couture will pick him apart

 

[Griffstrong]

Although I do not believe Brock Lesnar will dominate Couture....he is for real. Randy has a good chance at beating him if he comes in working to Brock's weaknesses, (which are Randys exact weaknesses also) with the right game plan and executes.

 

[Beau]

dude randy is an all around great mma fighter his strength is obviously wrestling like brock but he has great GnP and dirty boxing....brock lacks most mma skill! to say they have the same weaknesses is an insult to Couture. Brock is just a huge man that can use his size and power to take and hold opponents down. He lacks the skill to do any type of submission or any attack really from the ground as we have seen in his first 2 UFC fights. Dont get me wrong Brock is no push over hes def a threat with his size and strength but hes no where near the fighter (skill and experience wise) as Couture

 

[Griffstrong]

You are right about experience, thats where Randy nails him in the comparrison, but I dont agree with you on the "Brock has no skill and just uses his size to hold apponents down" You have no clue bro. You seem to forget that he was a Division 1 national champ in college wrestling. I am an ex college wrestler and have had 3 mma fights... and knowing what I know, that alone is nuts. Brock is the real deal. Watch the Heath Herring fight....he completely controlled Heath on the ground and didnt give up ground position once. And when it came back up to the feet, he either landed big punches, or took it right back down and started going to work on him again. You stated that Brock doesnt have the skill to submit....which to our knoledge as of now is a true statement. I guarantee you he is training BJJ daily and knows how, but just prefers not to because he is not comfortable with it yet. But answer me one question...whens the last time Randy submitted somebody? Or looked dominate as a submission guy? Never, and he has personally admitted before he is not a submission guy. As far as dirty boxing goes....I dont see how he will be able to hold a man as powerful and quick as Brock up against the cage and do large amount of damage to him. He was able to do this against Gabe Gonzaga because Gabe had zero wrestling experience. BJJ is not wrestling. Being in the clinch is like reading a book to wrestlers at these guys' level, they do it daily. Still giving the advantage to Couture technically in this position beings that he was involved in Greco wrestling at the International level, Brock still knows what he is doing in it, and will train for it. With his strength and knoledge of the Clinch he will be able to stay out of it, or at least stay out of harms way. Lets compare striking. Randy has improved his striking over the years and has definitely evolved. Nowdays he has great head movement and quick crisp hands. Still, traditionally not known as an overpowering striker with knockout power. In both of Brocks fights he has knocked his opponent down hard with his first big right hand punch. In the Heath Herring fight his eye was swollen shut from that first big right hand. Brock is very heavy handed. Randy needs to stay away from his power and will train to. Bottom line, this fight does not look good for Randy Couture. He has the experience of a 5 round fight, he has been in a few of them, and that is where some people may start to criticise Brock. But make no mistake about it, he was not gasing after 3 rounds with Herring, and the mentallity of a collegiate level wrestler will push him to get in condition for a 5 round fight, especially for a title. I would actually guess that he was in good enough shape to 5 rounds with Herring if need be. Besides experience Randy Couture doesnt have much on Brock Lesnar. Heart? Randy has more. (so far from what we've seen) But this fight has the making to be a loss in the column of Randy Couture. Dont get me wrong, im an avid Couture fan and always will be. He is my favorite MMA fighter, and will be completely wishing him to win. How many times has everybody counted him out before and he surprised? Several. This situation is no different, but I just dont see him being able to deal with Brock Lesnar as he has his former opponents. If you feel that I am wrong with anything above, please correct me Beau.

 

[Ironslave]

dude randy is an all around great mma fighter his strength is obviously wrestling like brock but he has great GnP and dirty boxing....brock lacks most mma skill! to say they have the same weaknesses is an insult to Couture. Brock is just a huge man that can use his size and power to take and hold opponents down. He lacks the skill to do any type of submission or any attack really from the ground as we have seen in his first 2 UFC fights. Dont get me wrong Brock is no push over hes def a threat with his size and strength but hes no where near the fighter (skill and experience wise) as Couture

I agree he is nowhere skill and experience wise, not even close. He also doesn't have any submission skills, and not much for striking..... but... he's a specimen. There is no way on earth that Randy is able to hold Brock against the cage for "dirty boxing".... and I also don't see Brock getting him down much before Couture does him.