Ronnie Coleman 1989 - 1990 (First Competition)

[Skeptic]

Cleaned up the thread.

IMO Ronnie's physique went downhill after 2001.

He was very big of course in 03 but from a bodybuilding stand point he didn't look nearly as good as he used to. The bigger he got the more his back look like a mess. Don't know if it was too much muscle or what but he lost a lot of symmetry from the back.

agreed

 

[Johnny Bravo]

unnecessary.

It was neccessary. All the childish vids and pics belong in the offtopic section.

the physique he put on stage in 2003 is widely considered the most insane combination of mass and conditioning ever displayed. his symmetry is still intact and he looks absolutely inhuman. his physique before hand (mainly 99 and 00) were was still very impressive, but no man without the aid of a myostatin inhibitor will ever top ronnie in 03.

Yes he was big and and had awesome conditioning (as he usual has) but that's about it for me.

 

[Ironslave]

Lighten up Duality.... not everyone here is a hardcore bodybuilding fan. Though this is predominately a bodybuilding site, people have a right to their opinion liking a less muscular, more streamlined physique. Do you resent people who would prefer Arnold's physique over Ronnie Coleman's from 2003? I think nobody would suggest that the Ronnie from 1990 could beat the Ronnie from 2003, but someone still has every right to say they preferred his build in 1990.

 

[Duality]

Lighten up Duality.... not everyone here is a hardcore bodybuilding fan. Though this is predominately a bodybuilding site, people have a right to their opinion liking a less muscular, more streamlined physique. Do you resent people who would prefer Arnold's physique over Ronnie Coleman's from 2003? I think nobody would suggest that the Ronnie from 1990 could beat the Ronnie from 2003, but someone still has every right to say they preferred his build in 1990.

hmm ok. still though to say he looked better in this year than his O wins needs to be worded better then. something like, "wow i'd love to look like him here, he was too big in his O wins" or something, not "he looks better here" which is just silly. we would have never even heard of ronnie had he not made any improvements and always looked like this. to say he looked better here is really saying "i don't like IFBB bodybuilding"

 

[tim290280]

I'm not going to argue specific points as it is pointless. My thighs are currently 27" and don't chaffe, but that is about where the mass is and the width of the hips. If they were 1-2" larger they would chaffe. The point being that if you start to have these sorts of things happening in your physique then you have proportions that don't match.

There are some parts of the body that cannot add size (to a large extent). These are the neck (can have mass but not usually done), head, wrist, knee, ankle and elbow and hips(although these two are disguised somewhat). So essentially your joints proportions predetermine your muscular proportions to a large extent. Take a look at Ronnie and he does have big joints, he can have big proportions and not look out of proportion. But at a point (take a look at any offseason pic of him) he is no longer in proportion due to the "mass game" that has come to predominate the sport.

At a point in playing the "mass game" mid sections have been thrown in the garbage in order to chase more mass. This distention IMO has ruined physiques and classified BBing under freak status. I think it was either the 1989 or 1990 Olympia (Bob Paris, Shaun Ray, Lee Labrada, Lee Haney, etc) that I saw where the posedown session was just animated and amazing. Guys were running around, vying for front spot, having fun!!! At this time it was less about freaks and more about athletes. Now the showdowns look like they are run in slowmotion in comparison. Freaks predominate. Despite how much people love the oversized competitors, it is not a good thing. We have become a freakshow sport. This is both unhealthy from the wider acceptance standpoint in society, and from the point of view of athlete health. The crap that these guys put themselves through to be that big is not something you can promote as a good and healthy lifestyle (not that other sports don't have equivilents). There are plenty of studies around showing just how unhealthy it is to be obese no matter whether it is muscle or fat (NFL players and heart attack risk).

This is all despite that fact that most people that do compete in BBing would fall into the original categories of competitors that weren't freakish. Most who compete here are relatively normal sizes. Seriously people have to get off the size bandwagon. Even the IFBB judges have finally started to award better symmetry (Heath, Dex). Freaky mass is not the image that the sport of BBing needs.

So excuse me all to hell if I happen to think that BBing doesn't need freaky physiques. But don't try and say I don't like BBing. It's the guys that push the freak bandwagon that are killing the sport.

Also there are a couple of BBing related psychology books around that people should have a read of. The one on female BBers is especially interesting, although the most relevant is the one on BBing as a subculture.

 

[Duality]

^ i see what you're saying and it's all fine. but someone with these views isn't a fan of IFBB bodybuilding, and isn't that the main focus of this site??? i just classify that more as a fan of fitness than a fan of bodybuilding, just my opinion though.

i understand liking the look of ronnie better here than in 03, but you can't say he's a "better" bodybuilder here, i don't care what your preferences are.

 

[Skeptic]

^ i see what you're saying and it's all fine. but someone with these views isn't a fan of IFBB bodybuilding, and isn't that the main focus of this site??? i just classify that more as a fan of fitness than a fan of bodybuilding, just my opinion though.

i understand liking the look of ronnie better here than in 03, but you can't say he's a "better" bodybuilder here, i don't care what your preferences are.

How does liking physiques like phil and dex (more aesthetic) classify us as not a fan of IFBB bodybuilding? Seriously, that is a bold statement. The main focus of this site is information about bodybuilding training and nutrition.. the 'pro bodybuilding' sections/threads are merely accessories.

 

[Duality]

How does liking physiques like phil and dex (more aesthetic) classify us as not a fan of IFBB bodybuilding? Seriously, that is a bold statement. The main focus of this site is information about bodybuilding training and nutrition.. the 'pro bodybuilding' sections/threads are merely accessories.

whoa whoa i did not say that at all. i think what you and tim are failing to understand is how HUGE phil and dex really are. have you ever seen either of them in person? you'd be very surprised i assure you how big these men who you thought had "nice" physiques are. i'm not bagging in the least bit on those who prefer the aforementioned physiques. but to say ronnie looked better here than in his prime (from a bodybuilding perspective) is just wrong. it's fine if you personally prefer this kind of physique as something you would like to attain, but don't say ronnie is better here than in his prime.

 

[tim290280]

^^ I haven't had the chance to see them in person. I have seen Ronnie and he is one huge MFer!! He'd battle to be as tall as is claimed but he is wide. But going by Dex's height and weight he would look pretty stumpy in real life.

But that wasn't the point. Dex doesn't actually look that out of proportion. He is a stumpy built guy.

 

[Skeptic]

whoa whoa i did not say that at all. i think what you and tim are failing to understand is how HUGE phil and dex really are. have you ever seen either of them in person? you'd be very surprised i assure you how big these men who you thought had "nice" physiques are. i'm not bagging in the least bit on those who prefer the aforementioned physiques. but to say ronnie looked better here than in his prime (from a bodybuilding perspective) is just wrong. it's fine if you personally prefer this kind of physique as something you would like to attain, but don't say ronnie is better here than in his prime.

I never said I dont like big guys... I said I like the aesthetic look that they bring. It seems though, that its the 'smaller' guys that bring this aesthetic look. Cutler and Coleman, two great bodybuilders, fucked their physiques playing the mass game. Coleman was goin way down (midsection fucked his physique) after id say 2000? 2001? And Cutler, not many people (myself including) were EVER fans of his midsection, but it at least suited his physique... then he got way to big, and his midsection got wide and thick... ruined everything else.

I believe the quest for mass over aesthetics is killing bodybuilding. Started with Dorian.. continued with Coleman, and hopefully ended with Cutler.

 

[Duality]

I never said I dont like big guys... I said I like the aesthetic look that they bring. It seems though, that its the 'smaller' guys that bring this aesthetic look. Cutler and Coleman, two great bodybuilders, fucked their physiques playing the mass game. Coleman was goin way down (midsection fucked his physique) after id say 2000? 2001? And Cutler, not many people (myself including) were EVER fans of his midsection, but it at least suited his physique... then he got way to big, and his midsection got wide and thick... ruined everything else.

I believe the quest for mass over aesthetics is killing bodybuilding. Started with Dorian.. continued with Coleman, and hopefully ended with Cutler.

i agree with everything except the notion that coleman's waist was ever a concern during his olympia wins. i think everybody who believes this confuses abdominal distension with abdominal thickening. they are two different things. the only time coleman's distension is apparent is when he is not flexing and walking around. in every mandatory pose his midsection has an excellent taper and to say he had a wide waist is quite frankly incorrect. to say coleman in 03 reflects a downward spiral is really just ridiculous, that physique, barring the invention of a true myostatin inhibitor, will be the greatest we will ever see onstage. the man was massive, and his waistline was in check. yes his distension takes away a little bit of the showmanship of his physique while walking or in repose, but fact of the matter is based on every mandatory pose it's a non-issue, and that is what's judged.

 

[Duality]

^^ I haven't had the chance to see them in person. I have seen Ronnie and he is one huge MFer!! He'd battle to be as tall as is claimed but he is wide. But going by Dex's height and weight he would look pretty stumpy in real life.

But that wasn't the point. Dex doesn't actually look that out of proportion. He is a stumpy built guy.

ok i have a question for you then. have you seen what dexter looked like before he turned pro? do you favor his physique at around 160 over his 2008 O victory one?

 

[Skeptic]

i agree with everything except the notion that coleman's waist was ever a concern during his olympia wins. i think everybody who believes this confuses abdominal distension with abdominal thickening. they are two different things. the only time coleman's distension is apparent is when he is not flexing and walking around. in every mandatory pose his midsection has an excellent taper and to say he had a wide waist is quite frankly incorrect. to say coleman in 03 reflects a downward spiral is really just ridiculous, that physique, barring the invention of a true myostatin inhibitor, will be the greatest we will ever see onstage. the man was massive, and his waistline was in check. yes his distension takes away a little bit of the showmanship of his physique while walking or in repose, but fact of the matter is based on every mandatory pose it's a non-issue, and that is what's judged.

Its more of a personal thing. It wasnt the width of his midsection that grabbed me, it was his gut. In the latter years, in an ab/thigh pose it didnt even look like he was flexing, it was always smoothe and bloated.

 

[tim290280]

ok i have a question for you then. have you seen what dexter looked like before he turned pro? do you favor his physique at around 160 over his 2008 O victory one?

I've only seem him at the two extremes of his career. He looks better at the heavier weight when he first competed at the Olympia, which was ~200 or 210 or something. He looks fine now, but his gut has started to have distention in the last year or two.

 

[Big_Guns_Lance]

Heres Dex as a lightweight amatuer

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov6l1bpgi6k

Back onto Ronnie though. I liked the way he looked on the first page but not to later on in his career. I like the Ronnie of early 2000.

And Tim, what height does Ronnie claim to be? 5ft 11 when hes actually more like 5ft 10?

 

[Duality]

Its more of a personal thing. It wasnt the width of his midsection that grabbed me, it was his gut. In the latter years, in an ab/thigh pose it didnt even look like he was flexing, it was always smoothe and bloated.

well he doesn't have the best shape anyways when it comes to abdominal shape but yes i will agree with you here that he did start to develop a gut. but still that gut is easily controllable while posing and does not affect the width of his midsection and that is what should count. but if you're gonna judge him relaxed and walking around than i guess you're right.