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Silverback Bodybuilding Compounds

Squats

power

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Should I squat using the smith machine or free weights? The issue at hand is that I have a herniated disk, I haven’t had issues with it in years, but I am concern about doing free weight squats. Also, when I do smith machine squats my quads don’t get sore, like when I do leg-presses. So, I am wondering whether I should change to free weight squats, to get the kind of feel I get when I do leg-presses. I am 6 2, 211 pounds and growing. I train heavy duty training, one set to failure. In regard to my herniated disk, I don’t have an issue when doing dead lifts. Thanks for your input in advance.
 

Skeptic

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Free Weights. Dont go hard out though... have you done anything to ease the disk at all?
 

power

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Free Weights. Dont go hard out though... have you done anything to ease the disk at all?

I did PT, that was a waste of time, what helped me out was pilates, but I haven’t done for a while
 

power

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I am also going to put 5 pound plates under my heel, this will help with my form.
 

power

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Only if your achilles is very short otherwise I dont see the point using them.

I have an old injury on my right heel i had a cast on my foot, but it still hurts from time to time. Therefore my right foot is not as straight as the right one, therefore i believe the 5 pound plate will help with my form. Thanks for the input, what is your advice on the squat or smith machine?
 

Pumpin

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herniated disk thats in ur back is it not? if ur doing dead lifts ur back is obviously strong enough isnt it?
 

Zigurd

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Only if your achilles is very short otherwise I dont see the point using them.

I have a short achilles... nobody ever told me using plates would help. How does it help ? Information very much appreciated !!!!!!!!!
 

tim290280

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Couple of comments:
Herniated disk you want to make sure that you have a neutral spine at all times in all lifts, not just squats.
Smith machines are useless.
Plate under your heels to squat is terrible for your form, your mobility and your knees. Work on ankle mobility.
 

power

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Couple of comments:
Herniated disk you want to make sure that you have a neutral spine at all times in all lifts, not just squats.
Smith machines are useless.
Plate under your heels to squat is terrible for your form, your mobility and your knees. Work on ankle mobility.



What do you mean by neutral? Simth machines are useless for the variety of exercises bodybuilders us them for. For example, incline presses, shurgs, deadlifts?
 

youngmusclejock

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What do you mean by neutral? Simth machines are useless for the variety of exercises bodybuilders us them for. For example, incline presses, shurgs, deadlifts?

The plane of motion that the smith machine makes you go in is not the natural plane that you would using free weights while squatting. I remember that reading some where and it explained everything you need to know. Just do a simple google search and you will find your answers.
 

power

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The plane of motion that the smith machine makes you go in is not the natural plane that you would using free weights while squatting. I remember that reading some where and it explained everything you need to know. Just do a simple google search and you will find your answers.

Thank you!:imcoolurnot:
 

power

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I am looking forward to new growth this year, i am on my 3rd year of training, and i will be starting squating. Even for shrugs i am going to use free weights. I am on a mission and that is to fill out my 6.2 frame so i can compete, but size is everthing and i don't have enough of it, but i will in due time.
 

tim290280

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What do you mean by neutral? Simth machines are useless for the variety of exercises bodybuilders us them for. For example, incline presses, shurgs, deadlifts?
Most people would call it a flat back, but the reality is that you maintain the natural curvature of the spine; hence neutral. Don't allow movement in the mid to lower spine during any movement.

Smith machines just plain suck. Force curve is wrong, body moves around the bar not the body moving the bar, increased shear forces (at either the hip or knee dependant on the stance in squats) at the joints, the list goes on and on. The only thing they are good for is chinups/pullups, lockouts (what it was originally made for) and hanging a towel on.
 

power

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Most people would call it a flat back, but the reality is that you maintain the natural curvature of the spine; hence neutral. Don't allow movement in the mid to lower spine during any movement.

Smith machines just plain suck. Force curve is wrong, body moves around the bar not the body moving the bar, increased shear forces (at either the hip or knee dependant on the stance in squats) at the joints, the list goes on and on. The only thing they are good for is chinups/pullups, lockouts (what it was originally made for) and hanging a towel on.

Thankyou.
 

Fatality

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I did a little research to see if working out period is good after having a herniated disk and they sad it was fine. "Will exercises help the pain?
Yes, exercises can be helpful. Begin by stretching. Bend over forward and bend to the sides. Start these exercises after your back is a little stronger and doesn't hurt as much. The goal of exercise is to make your back and stomach muscles stronger. This will ease the pressure on your disk and make you hurt less. Ask your doctor about exercises for your back. Your doctor may want you to see a physical therapist to learn about safe back exercises." http://familydoctor.org/online/famdocen/home/common/brain/disorders/341.html Anyways, about the soreness, don't worry about how one exercise makes you feel more sore than another, most bodybuilders get too considered about this issue and start to feel that their working out strategies aren't working. The reason why your quads aren't as sore when you do smith squats versus leg press is simple, leg presses are more geared in targeting the quads an not so the whole leg as do the squats on the press. And Tim is right, smith machines are useless, but in your case with the herniated disk, it really wouldn't hurt to just try them out. You can grow greatly from these smith machines, as long as you lift correctly. As for the free weights, you should use them as well. I'd stay away from heavy weights and staying just shy of failure (only if it bothers you). A combination of both free weights and smith can really help in the lower body region. If you were all that concerned with free weights then you wouldn't have done the dead lifts, but if those don't hurt you then don't worry about the squats, go for it!
 

tim290280

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I did a little research to see if working out period is good after having a herniated disk and they sad it was fine. "Will exercises help the pain?
Yes, exercises can be helpful. Begin by stretching. Bend over forward and bend to the sides. Start these exercises after your back is a little stronger and doesn't hurt as much. The goal of exercise is to make your back and stomach muscles stronger. This will ease the pressure on your disk and make you hurt less. Ask your doctor about exercises for your back. Your doctor may want you to see a physical therapist to learn about safe back exercises." http://familydoctor.org/online/famdocen/home/common/brain/disorders/341.html Anyways, about the soreness, don't worry about how one exercise makes you feel more sore than another, most bodybuilders get too considered about this issue and start to feel that their working out strategies aren't working. The reason why your quads aren't as sore when you do smith squats versus leg press is simple, leg presses are more geared in targeting the quads an not so the whole leg as do the squats on the press. And Tim is right, smith machines are useless, but in your case with the herniated disk, it really wouldn't hurt to just try them out. You can grow greatly from these smith machines, as long as you lift correctly. As for the free weights, you should use them as well. I'd stay away from heavy weights and staying just shy of failure (only if it bothers you). A combination of both free weights and smith can really help in the lower body region. If you were all that concerned with free weights then you wouldn't have done the dead lifts, but if those don't hurt you then don't worry about the squats, go for it!
:disgust:
Stretching your "back"? You want to have stability in this area not mobility (no spine stretches, but lats and traps are ok).

Smith machine is not an option. Foot placement relative to the bar either increases the shear forces at the knee as the foot goes further forward (the position that would have least back shear), or 1000x shear at the hip as the feet get closer to under the bar (hip will translate to the low back). Either option is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I would prefer to see 1 legged exercises (split squats, lunges, step-ups, etc) and front/back squats done with free weights. In this manner as long as good form is maintained then relative stressors will be minimised while lifting.
 

TJ

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:disgust:
Stretching your "back"? You want to have stability in this area not mobility (no spine stretches, but lats and traps are ok).

Smith machine is not an option. Foot placement relative to the bar either increases the shear forces at the knee as the foot goes further forward (the position that would have least back shear), or 1000x shear at the hip as the feet get closer to under the bar (hip will translate to the low back). Either option is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I would prefer to see 1 legged exercises (split squats, lunges, step-ups, etc) and front/back squats done with free weights. In this manner as long as good form is maintained then relative stressors will be minimised while lifting.

I agree with Tim here. A lot of times single leg exercises are extremely under-rated but they are crucial for achieving structural balance. Even if someone has a lower back issue, such as a hernia, I would imagine single-leg movements would be okay assuming the person has adequate mobility so their spine is not forced into flexion. But, if the movement hurts then don't do it.
 
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