US ship fires on Iranian boat

[Braaq]

Yes, he did, but he now regrets it. He voted to go after those groups in Afghanistan, and that's it. Tech didn't label the troops terrorists, it's more complex. He was just saying that he doesn't consider the "insurgents" (and I use quotations, since it is their country) who attack US soldiers in Iraq as terrorists. Which is true, when America does something, they're "freedom fighters", yet when something is done to America, its from terrorists. Watch the cartoon I posted, pirates and emperors are really the same.

But as I said below, most "insurgents" are from known terrorist organizations or factions fighting for control of the new government. And if they are not terrorists then why on earth do they blow up cafe's and crowded civilian areas?

Nobody said that MOST of the opium was used for medications, of course most of it is still used recreationally. But, one, what right does the US have to tell people in Afghanistan or wherever that they cannot use opium in their own country? Two, them doing so does severely hurt the economy of those countries.

Opium is an illegal drug alllll around the world, if their main export is illegal around the world then I do not see any justification for them to continue growing opium under their new government backed by us. Do you?

 

[Tech]

I disagree with it myself, but what do you propose we do when we got rid of Al-Queda and their backed government controlled by the Taliban???? I am sure the US government and all us are open to ideas.
Since we are nation building (unfortunately) we surely are not going to let them continue to grow a crop that floods our streets and destroys the lives of millions.

the US government had no idea what they were doing when they went to Afghanistan, thats probably the main reason we didn't declare war. If we declared war, we'd have to have a plan. I don't know enough about the type of government in Afghanistan pre-9/11, so I don't know who should've been put in charge after we blew it up.

As for illegal drugs coming into this country, instead of going to Afghanistan and destroying the opium farms....maybe we should stay in America and guard our ports and borders. Drugs come into this country through ports and borders, so thats where we should stop them. Problem solved.

 

[Braaq]

As for illegal drugs coming into this country, instead of going to Afghanistan and destroying the opium farms....maybe we should stay in America and guard our ports and borders. Drugs come into this country through ports and borders, so thats where we should stop them. Problem solved.

I am pretty sure that is what we are trying to do already, and that has certainly not worked. To eliminate/reduce a growing problem you eliminate the source, why play the defense if something can be done? What your talking about is the "war on drugs" that has not worked.

 

[Robcardu]

we surely are not going to let them continue to grow a crop that floods our streets and destroys the lives of millions.

US tought colombians how to make cocaine many years ago,everybody down here knows that, thats a multimillionare biz and you guys are involved, US goverment and its double-faced war on drug bullshit.

 

[Braaq]

US tought colombians how to make cocaine many years ago,everybody down here knows that, thats a multimillionare biz and you guys are involved, US goverment and its double-faced war on drug bullshit.

Everyone knows that or believes that?
Also, for a long time Robita Cocaine was used as a natural anesthetic for surgeries and other medical situations. So yes, it could definitely be true that we showed them how to make it at that time since they had the most abundant crop available.

 

[Tech]

I am pretty sure that is what we are trying to do already, and that has certainly not worked. To eliminate/reduce a growing problem you eliminate the source, why play the defense if something can be done? What your talking about is the "war on drugs" that has not worked.

my point was, we should mind our own business and worry about whats going on in America.

Our "war on drugs" will always fail because you can't stop drug use through force. Drug addiction can only be controlled through education and rehabilitation. Instead of spending billions of dollars on arresting drug dealers and stopping drug producers, we should spend the money on treatment facilities for people who are addicted and want help.

Example: We can't stop obesity by closing every McDonalds, but we can teach people the dangers of unhealthy eating. Then when people start eating healthier, McDonalds would go out of business.

 

[Braaq]

my point was, we should mind our own business and worry about whats going on in America.

Our "war on drugs" will always fail because you can't stop drug use through force. Drug addiction can only be controlled through education and rehabilitation. Instead of spending billions of dollars on arresting drug dealers and stopping drug producers, we should spend the money on treatment facilities for people who are addicted and want help.

Example: We can't stop obesity by closing every McDonalds, but we can teach people the dangers of unhealthy eating. Then when people start eating healthier, McDonalds would go out of business.

True, good point.

Except about the example... we are education people more and more about nutrition and healthy living but thanks to your obesogenic society most do not stand a chance.

 

[pegasus]

Yes, he did, but he now regrets it. He voted to go after those groups in Afghanistan, and that's it. Tech didn't label the troops terrorists, it's more complex. He was just saying that he doesn't consider the "insurgents" (and I use quotations, since it is their country) who attack US soldiers in Iraq as terrorists. Which is true, when America does something, they're "freedom fighters", yet when something is done to America, its from terrorists. Watch the cartoon I posted, pirates and emperors are really the same.

Nobody said that MOST of the opium was used for medications, of course most of it is still used recreationally. But, one, what right does the US have to tell people in Afghanistan or wherever that they cannot use opium in their own country? Two, them doing so does severely hurt the economy of those countries.

to the best of my knowledge, ron paul tried to bring back a law which used to exist which allowed government to wage war against a certain group of people i.e. pirates etc. i think what he wanted was a war against al-queida but not the country of afghanistan. he knew it would end up as another nation building exercise.

and as for the drugs, the only right america has is to protect its boarders and prevent the drugs from getting into the country. it has no right to tell anyone else what to do because they apparently don't want their drugs making their way into the US.

as for the citizens of the US, the polititions have no right to tell an adult what to do with their body and lifes, as long as they do no harm to others. i bet you anythings that if the government could tax the income from the sell of recreational drugs, and prostitution etc they would make them all legal.

 

[Robcardu]

Everyone knows that or believes that?
Also, for a long time Robita Cocaine was used as a natural anesthetic for surgeries and other medical situations. So yes, it could definitely be true that we showed them how to make it at that time since they had the most abundant crop available.

knows that, and thats a dif. sort of cocaine, but were missing a point here ..Iran and how fucked up you will be if Us attack them.

 

[Braaq]

to the best of my knowledge, ron paul tried to bring back a law which used to exist which allowed government to wage war against a certain group of people i.e. pirates etc. i think what he wanted was a war against al-queida but not the country of afghanistan. he knew it would end up as another nation building exercise.

and as for the drugs, the only right america has is to protect its boarders and prevent the drugs from getting into the country. it has no right to tell anyone else what to do because they apparently don't want their drugs making their way into the US.

as for the citizens of the US, the polititions have no right to tell an adult what to do with their body and lifes, as long as they do no harm to others. i bet you anythings that if the government could tax the income from the sell of recreational drugs, and prostitution etc they would make them all legal.

Yet they do it anyways

 

[Duality]

wow this is a great thread. good points and conversations here guys.

i hate our fucking backwards government, too bad ron paul has no chance of being our president. nice to think about though.....

 

[Ironslave]

But as I said below, most "insurgents" are from known terrorist organizations or factions fighting for control of the new government. And if they are not terrorists then why on earth do they blow up cafe's and crowded civilian areas?

Eh, I certainly agree with the fact that there are many "terrorists" who do what they do to increase power and shit, but its just hard to distinguish and make things black and white because there are reasons, external funding provided to them, etc. I think we both agree that US troops shouldn't be there though.

Opium is an illegal drug alllll around the world, if their main export is illegal around the world then I do not see any justification for them to continue growing opium under their new government backed by us. Do you?

Well, I think it should be legal, but certainly, the US shouldn't be able to tell Afghanistan how to conduct their own laws.

I am pretty sure that is what we are trying to do already, and that has certainly not worked. To eliminate/reduce a growing problem you eliminate the source, why play the defense if something can be done? What your talking about is the "war on drugs" that has not worked.

What right do they have to eliminate the source? Regardless though, they are by no means really trying to enforce the boarders, they are by no means difficult to get through. Border security is a joke, and many higher ups in the current government don't really give a shit.

 

[Skeptic]

wow... hardcore discussion guys. Nice work IS and Tech

 

[Tech]

wow this is a great thread. good points and conversations here guys.

i hate our fucking backwards government, too bad ron paul has no chance of being our president. nice to think about though.....

people like Ron Paul will always have a hard time winning over the majority of people, because his ideas are so vastly different than every other politicians.

it's too bad Paul isn't younger, because he could have really had a good shot if he ran in 2012. he now has name recognition and he is pretty much an internet legend.

 

[Braaq]

Eh, I certainly agree with the fact that there are many "terrorists" who do what they do to increase power and shit, but its just hard to distinguish and make things black and white because there are reasons, external funding provided to them, etc. I think we both agree that US troops shouldn't be there though.

I agree, we should have never been in Iraq in the first place. My views on that have never changed. I am, however, in a disagreement with trying to say that there are "freedom fighters" trying to get a foreign invader out (the US). That would be great if that were the truth but all we did was stir up a hornets nest and are now caught in the middle of several factions/groups trying to gain power or a stake in the new government or get us out to take over by having a dominant influence. I would say that the groups or individuals trying to get us out because they see us as you say are the minority. This is a power struggle, and is why we should never have gotten involved in the first place

Well, I think it should be legal, but certainly, the US shouldn't be able to tell Afghanistan how to conduct their own laws.

You think opium should be legal? For medical purposes yes, but those are some pretty extremist views there.
If we took down the existing government and spent our tax dollars and lost men and woman instilling a new form of government I think we do have a few say in things like they cannot grow a plant that is killing and ruining the lives of our citizens and people all around the world. I guess we see eye to eye on somethings and can agree to disagree on this subject.

What right do they have to eliminate the source? Regardless though, they are by no means really trying to enforce the boarders, they are by no means difficult to get through. Border security is a joke, and many higher ups in the current government don't really give a shit.

I just mentioned our "right" above.
And you have to agree with how vast and large our borders are, it is impossible to have a completely secure border where no one can sneak in with kilos of whatever drug they want. That is just ludicrous and wishful thinking. So our only choice left is to nip it at the bud, no? Whether we have the right or not, it's more effective than being on the defensive and applying our "war on drugs". But I by no means condone or think we should do this in every country whose main export are drugs.

 

[Braaq]

people like Ron Paul will always have a hard time winning over the majority of people, because his ideas are so vastly different than every other politicians.

it's too bad Paul isn't younger, because he could have really had a good shot if he ran in 2012. he now has name recognition and he is pretty much an internet legend.

It' f***ing BS
The american public are idiots, and I for one hope that he stays as healthy as can be and runs again I will vote for him even if he is in a coma at 100 years old and runs

 

[Hypocrisy86]

I support Ron Paul till the end of time.
2012 God bless

 

[Bulkboy]

Bulkboy obviously didn't watch the video I posted

Bulkboy, you need to read up on what is happening there, as you are correct, things are NOT black and white. Things are not black and white in the way you portray it, (islamo fascist bastards murdering innocent helpless civilians for shits and giggles).
You probably thought that "omfg, Saddam is a meanie, he gassed his own people, America needs to ride in on its white horse and save the day." Not knowing that America actually gave him those weapons.

The kind of civil conflicts going on over there have been going on for centuries, and yes, of course innocent civilians get caught in the way. BUT, an American presence is only fueling the fire to that conflict, plus America has killed multiple times more innocent civilians than those "islamofascist bastards".

ok IS, first of all please do not portray me as a neocon, cuz as ive said countless times before, i was AGAINST the iraq war from the beginning. and yes i know that the US gave him those weapons in the war against Iran. you can question the intentions of the US and so forth, but at the end of the day the fact remains, the US are there, and just pulling out is not gonna solve anything, other than Iraq turning into a haven for terrorists. Actually the number of killed civillians have decreased over a long period of time now, and obviously the situation on the ground is improving. offc from time to time another car bomb explodes, but you guys need to have some patience, stabilizing a country is a whole other board game than invading it, and seeing as the US went in, then the US have a responsibility to finish the job, and NOT leave the second largest oil reserves in the world get on the hands of terrorists, cuz only thinking about that is ridicolous imo, also the situation for the iraqi civillian population would become intolerable, even worse than it is now. and IS, saying that stuff about america having killed more innocent civillians than those islamo facist bastards, thats not very relevant, offc invading a country and running an air war is gonna kill alot of people, but there is a difference between acidentally missing a target and killing civillians and directly going after civillian targets with the one purpose of killing and injuring, dont u agree?

 

[Ironslave]

ok IS, first of all please do not portray me as a neocon, cuz as ive said countless times before, i was AGAINST the iraq war from the beginning.

Agreed, I've never called you a neocon before I don't think, just a poor misguided soul

and yes i know that the US gave him those weapons in the war against Iran. you can question the intentions of the US and so forth, but at the end of the day the fact remains, the US are there, and just pulling out is not gonna solve anything, other than Iraq turning into a haven for terrorists.

Again, the word "terrorists". Why aren't the US military portrayed as terrorists? They've killed FAR more people than any "terrorist" group ever will. Their presence just pissed off these "terrorists" who hate America as it is, and as such they're more likely to attack American troops, or set off a car bomb or what not and kill civilians in the process.

Actually the number of killed civillians have decreased over a long period of time now, and obviously the situation on the ground is improving. offc from time to time another car bomb explodes, but you guys need to have some patience, stabilizing a country is a whole other board game than invading it, and seeing as the US went in, then the US have a responsibility to finish the job

How? How long will it take to finish the job, tell me this? You're looking for cherry picking information and statistics, 2007 was the deadliest year for American casualties, and casualties have always declined in the winter then picked up in summer.

But yeah, for whatever casualties which may be slightly down since the war began (NOT pre-invasion, there's a major difference) Iraq is completely destroyed. Pieces of Iraq are breaking off and getting controlled by other groups, and not only this, they are literally bribing those who they used to fight against. I'd encourage you to read this article in its entirety.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/18722376/the_myth_of_the_surge

and NOT leave the second largest oil reserves in the world get on the hands of terrorists, cuz only thinking about that is ridicolous imo, also the situation for the iraqi civillian population would become intolerable, even worse than it is now.

So instead America steals it for themselves? . No matter what "islamofascist terrorist bastard" groups do, they can not come close to doing the damage and killing the country that the US military has, not even close.

and IS, saying that stuff about america having killed more innocent civillians than those islamo facist bastards, thats not very relevant, offc invading a country and running an air war is gonna kill alot of people, but there is a difference between acidentally missing a target and killing civillians and directly going after civillian targets with the one purpose of killing and injuring, dont u agree?

No, I don't. For one, it is true, America has killed infinite times more. Two, is an Iraqi civilian who lost his wife and son in an air strike going to give a shit how or why it happened? Is he going to think "oh its okay, it's an air war". ?
Fuck no, he's not going to give a shit, he's going to get pissed off that some foreign nation waged war and bombed the shit out of his country for no reason whatsoever, (except pure lies). As such, he's going to get pissed off, and is more likely to attack the American troops, who killed his family for doing nothing.

Then, he is of course, labeled an "islamofascist bastard."

 

[Robcardu]

ok IS, first of all please do not portray me as a neocon, cuz as ive said countless times before, i was AGAINST the iraq war from the beginning. and yes i know that the US gave him those weapons in the war against Iran. you can question the intentions of the US and so forth, but at the end of the day the fact remains, the US are there, and just pulling out is not gonna solve anything, other than Iraq turning into a haven for terrorists. Actually the number of killed civillians have decreased over a long period of time now, and obviously the situation on the ground is improving. offc from time to time another car bomb explodes, but you guys need to have some patience, stabilizing a country is a whole other board game than invading it, and seeing as the US went in, then the US have a responsibility to finish the job, and NOT leave the second largest oil reserves in the world get on the hands of terrorists, cuz only thinking about that is ridicolous imo, also the situation for the iraqi civillian population would become intolerable, even worse than it is now. and IS, saying that stuff about america having killed more innocent civillians than those islamo facist bastards, thats not very relevant, offc invading a country and running an air war is gonna kill alot of people, but there is a difference between acidentally missing a target and killing civillians and directly going after civillian targets with the one purpose of killing and injuring, dont u agree?

for living in a oil producer country your knowledge about this topic is really poor, you should search for more information and dont believe in the crap before your eyes.