"War on drugs is insane" - Jack Cafferty

[Bulkboy]

As Tech mentioned, alcohol prohibition caused infinite times more problems than legalizing alcohol, even the strictest anti-drug person who bases his arguments on statistics couldn't disagree with this. There was tons more crime, violence, cost to enforce it, so on.

ye i agree with that, alcohol had already been legal for hundreds of years, and that is why there was such an uprise when the prohibition came into place. drugs on the other hand have never been generally accepted, and i dont see why that has to change, knowing what we know today about the health/crime aspect of it.

Switzerland would disagree with you, they would argue that it reduces crime, costs, and improves health. What is their basis for this argument? oh i dont know.... the fact that they legalized it!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27987734/

um, from what i understand, switzerland havent actually legalized it, for anyone else but the most addicted people. this is an emergency soution for the people so covered in shit, and so hooked on the stuff that there is no turning back for them. these people walk around like zombies, always searching for ways to get their next fix, every major city have them. and u want to create more of them by making it legal for everyone

Ugh... the us also has higher related crimes for basically everything else. This is a lousy argument, and has nothing to do with legal vs. illegal guns. You mentioned automatic weapons earlier being more abundant in America..... tell me, are they legal in America? (answer is no, yet, they are still there).

yep, ure right about the US having generally higher crime rates. that doesent mean u cant draw a line between the extremely high gun murder rate and the liberal gun laws. the ban on assault weapons wasnt reinstituted by bush in 2004 when it expired. so u can buy an ak-47 right? anyway, i would like some source that says directly that automatic weapons are illegal in america. could be they are illegal in some states, but not in all.

EDIT: seems ure right about fully automatic weapons not being legal. semis are though, so we arent exactly talking about hunting weapons here.

What on earth could make things harder than taking away their income? criminals/gangs/terrorist groups would no longer have the means to fund their activities, which would cripple them. Again, look at prohibition.

there is no doubt that making drugs legal would eliminate alot of crime in that regard. to me its just not worth it though to have more users, also i believe the criminals would find different lines of crime to pursue like more robbery theft etc, and what we would end up with is just more drug users, and even greater societal costs than today.

dont take it literal, i was just refering to this notion that the way to meet crime is to give into criminals. what needs to be done instead imo, is to focus greater on rehab programs for the people who are suffering from addiction to drugs. and to go harder after the people who are selling them.(atleast the harder drugs)

drugs in general, is a problem for society, just look at medicine, the use of drugs is higher than ever. everyone now seems to think that life can get better by taking a pill. oh ure depressed? take a pill! u wanna lose weight? take a pill! wanna get buff? take pills!

and imo supplying people with more and harder drugs is just not the way to go for a society with such fundamental problems.

Then raise your kids properly, and teach them to be responsible and avoid damaging substances, simple. Don't rely on the government to project them for you.

this is a cheap argument, typical but cheap nonetheless. alot of kids with parents who do a great job still end up on the drug train. everybody can fall face flat on the floor sometimes, and end up with bad habits. some people are more prone to addiction than others, its a fact. i know ure all about personal responsibility, and that should never be taken out of the equation, but the fact is that we are all constructed differently, and making it easier for people to adopt bad habits instead of harder is just not the way to go.

Cool story Hansel.

its true, and it goes to show how drugs are causing problems for not only the one who takes them, but for society and everyone else in general.

riiiggghhhtttt...... 10x more people are going to walk around high on amphetamines?


Come on Bulkboy, make sense.

why get hung up in numbers, u know what i mean, consumption will go up, more people like that will walk around in the streets. suddenly the resources that the police used to spend on stopping drug dealers will be directed towards keeping u and me safe from lunatics like that.

 

[tim290280]

well lets be honest, someone under the influence of both can run you over in their car, you`ll be the one looking like a stool sample, ruining your whole life ,not me, or perhaps both of us or even me.
ahhh the wonderful world of being drunk

and note i said weed not narcotics

another example of a strawman arguement which shows great ignorance

I would have called it satire.

And the vehicular manslaughter argument is complete BS. I've been in the car with and met various people (let alone those I've just seen on the road) that shouldn't be allowed to drive at all, let alone after seeing pictures of alcholic beverages or narcotics. Yet they are allowed to drive legally while those that are still more capable and able drivers when under the influence of drugs or alcohol are not.

Vehicular manslaughter is down to the driver. Always has been always will be.


Back on topic: IS that article is also backed up by a couple of studies published somewhere. I remember one was done on Heroin abuse in Holland when they legalised it. Pretty much was great for the country (drug use down, drug related crime was down, disease down) but crap for one neighbourhood/town (what users were left accumulated in the town where the state sponsored free clinic was).

 

[Ironslave]

ye i agree with that, alcohol had already been legal for hundreds of years, and that is why there was such an uprise when the prohibition came into place. drugs on the other hand have never been generally accepted, and i dont see why that has to change, knowing what we know today about the health/crime aspect of it.

um, from what i understand, switzerland havent actually legalized it, for anyone else but the most addicted people. this is an emergency soution for the people so covered in shit, and so hooked on the stuff that there is no turning back for them. these people walk around like zombies, always searching for ways to get their next fix, every major city have them. and u want to create more of them by making it legal for everyone

It's not quite a free for all, but it just shows the success of the program. You keep talking about health/crime, and saying it like it's a given that they'd be worse.... why is it that health and crime have improved?

from the article:
In an attempt to reduce the spread of such diseases, if nothing else, the Swiss health department began introducing needle exchanges, followed by clean injection rooms where addicts could take heroin in a safe environment, supervised by a nurse.

So, there's safer use of it, and you don't suddenly see the addict turn around and stab the nurses with the needles, stop being dramatic about the violence please.

EDIT: seems ure right about fully automatic weapons not being legal. semis are though, so we arent exactly talking about hunting weapons here.

Correct, but do these criminals who use automatic weapons get them legally? (obviously not).

there is no doubt that making drugs legal would eliminate alot of crime in that regard. to me its just not worth it though to have more users, also i believe the criminals would find different lines of crime to pursue like more robbery theft etc, and what we would end up with is just more drug users, and even greater societal costs than today.

Come on man. More robbery and theft? So are you saying that it's not worth eliminating all the violent drug killings and funding gangs/terrorist groups, because there'd be more petty theft?

There is NO way it will cost more. Nobody (well, almost nobody) arguing in favor of the war on drugs does so on the basis that it actually saves cost. Tech just posted a Harvard professor saying that the government could save 77 billion dollars a year. Do you actually think there'd be 77 billion dollars worth of heroin addicts doing petty crimes?

dont take it literal, i was just refering to this notion that the way to meet crime is to give into criminals. what needs to be done instead imo, is to focus greater on rehab programs for the people who are suffering from addiction to drugs. and to go harder after the people who are selling them.(atleast the harder drugs)

I hate the way you say "give into them." You make it seem like the criminals would win, but in actuality they'd be crippled. Are you really advocating expanding the war on drugs?

drugs in general, is a problem for society, just look at medicine, the use of drugs is higher than ever. everyone now seems to think that life can get better by taking a pill. oh ure depressed? take a pill! u wanna lose weight? take a pill! wanna get buff? take pills!

Finally, something logical :music: .... drug use is higher than ever today, which shows what a failure the war on drugs is.

and imo supplying people with more and harder drugs is just not the way to go for a society with such fundamental problems.

Nobody is saying "here you go kids, take your heroin!"

this is a cheap argument, typical but cheap nonetheless. alot of kids with parents who do a great job still end up on the drug train. everybody can fall face flat on the floor sometimes, and end up with bad habits. some people are more prone to addiction than others, its a fact. i know ure all about personal responsibility, and that should never be taken out of the equation, but the fact is that we are all constructed differently, and making it easier for people to adopt bad habits instead of harder is just not the way to go.

You can't expect the government to nanny you from cradle to grave. Sure, sometimes kids fall into traps, but you can't stop that.

its true, and it goes to show how drugs are causing problems for not only the one who takes them, but for society and everyone else in general.

n=1 .... how about the hundreds/thousands killed in drug wars?

why get hung up in numbers, u know what i mean, consumption will go up, more people like that will walk around in the streets. suddenly the resources that the police used to spend on stopping drug dealers will be directed towards keeping u and me safe from lunatics like that.

You took offense earlier when I suggested that you were saying drug use would skyrocket... then you give a figure saying it would increase by 10x. Give me a break Bulkboy, society isn't going to turn into a group of walking heroin addicted zombies who will kill you walking down the street.

 

[Tech]

drugs on the other hand have never been generally accepted, and i dont see why that has to change, knowing what we know today about the health/crime aspect of it.

I'd urge you to read the history of pretty much every major illegal drug, and you'll see that you are very incorrect.

 

[tim290280]

^^ My favourite is the one that was developed for morning sickness.

Greatest trip ever for pregnant women!