Split Training - All wrong!

[TJ]

Deadlifts work hip extension (erectors, glutes and hamstrings) so, It would make sense that your lower back would be sore. The upper back just plays a stabilization role but still could be sore since its not typically handling a large amount of weight. Many people train for athletic performance while keeping a certain body weight. I don't really think a certain routine will mean bigger size gains because that really comes down to calories.

 

[philosopher]

Bodybuilding it full of dogmas. Dont waste your time arguing this Tim. There are always two extreme camps but remember the truth is mostly somewere in between. Sure split training will help your gain but is it the most effective way? Dont train like Ronnie Coleman (or other pros) because you wanna be Ronnie. Its utterly insane to follow a routine like he does. Imo the more advanced someone is the more benefid he could get out of split training but as far as being advanced there are very few guys who match that criteria.

 

[tim290280]

^^ Yeh. There are very few actual advanced trainees. I hate it when people think that because they have been training for a couple of years they are advanced. Sorry to say but unless you are performing at an elite level you are not advanced. So splits can be great for advanced BBers because you can overload lagging areas using specialisation (because before advanced level you just don't have the mass to need specialisation). But before that you really need the frequency of training to improve the opportunities to grow.

 

[Bulkboy]

u should be careful with stating that only drug users will benefit from split training tim, because alot of people on this forum, including myself are nattys and have achieved alot from utilizing split training

hitting each muscle directly once a week is enough, gotta remember that every muscle gets worked alot during the rest of the week, i mean the back is stabilizing all the time, ur walking around on ur legs all the time, and shoulders are get hit plenty from all pressing moves. as long as u train to failure, and with maximum intensity, ure not gonna be able to have 2 productive sessions for a musclegroup per week.

this is my honest opinion, i dont have anything against people training in a different style than myself, but dont come and preach it as the holy grail of training when alot of other people have success with split training.

 

[tim290280]

u should be careful with stating that only drug users will benefit from split training tim, because alot of people on this forum, including myself are nattys and have achieved alot from utilizing split training

Where did I say this Because I never said that.

hitting each muscle directly once a week is enough, gotta remember that every muscle gets worked alot during the rest of the week, i mean the back is stabilizing all the time, ur walking around on ur legs all the time, and shoulders are get hit plenty from all pressing moves. as long as u train to failure, and with maximum intensity, ure not gonna be able to have 2 productive sessions for a musclegroup per week.

this is my honest opinion, i dont have anything against people training in a different style than myself, but dont come and preach it as the holy grail of training when alot of other people have success with split training.

I am not giving an opinion based on my own experience. I am giving an opinion based upon my reading of the science studies that have been done and the writings of elite level strength coaches. In my opinion what these things say speaks more than anything you or I have to say.

 

[Bulkboy]

Where did I say this Because I never said that.

I am not giving an opinion based on my own experience. I am giving an opinion based upon my reading of the science studies that have been done and the writings of elite level strength coaches. In my opinion what these things say speaks more than anything you or I have to say.

ok i may have misinterpreted what u first said, but it did come off as u claiming that individuals using, were gaining despite off, instead of because off split training.

anyways, what i would want then is a specific study that concludes with and presents evidence that frequency based training leads to more lean muscle gains in an individual. do u have that kind of study, because i have yet to see one.

 

[tim290280]

ok i may have misinterpreted what u first said, but it did come off as u claiming that individuals using, were gaining despite off, instead of because off split training.

anyways, what i would want then is a specific study that concludes with and presents evidence that frequency based training leads to more lean muscle gains in an individual. do u have that kind of study, because i have yet to see one.

Um so you are saying you don't read any of the stuff I post then :wutyousay:

Because I've posted a lot of studies and abstracts and general articles on this topic over the years. There was a meta-analysis recently published that covered what the ideal training parameters were, not sure if I posted it or not (tell me if I haven't I'll dig it up ).

Of course you could search Google Scholar if you really want.

 

[TJ]

hitting each muscle directly once a week is enough, gotta remember that every muscle gets worked alot during the rest of the week, i mean the back is stabilizing all the time, ur walking around on ur legs all the time, and shoulders are get hit plenty from all pressing moves. as long as u train to failure, and with maximum intensity, ure not gonna be able to have 2 productive sessions for a musclegroup per week.

I thought I would just point out that training every body part twice per week does not mean doing 12 sets twice per week. Take back for example; say you train back once per week with 12 sets. Well, with a frequency based routine you would do 6 sets earlier in the week and then 6 sets later in the week. The volume stays the same week in and week out but the frequency is increased.

 

[Ironslave]

anyways, what i would want then is a specific study that concludes with and presents evidence that frequency based training leads to more lean muscle gains in an individual. do u have that kind of study, because i have yet to see one.

A credible one will never happen. WAY too many factors involved such as genetics, diet, progressive overload, training status, and numerous more.

The only things we can really go on are the following:

1) Hormonal levels/enzymatic activity after training. Many myogenic factors have been shown to return to baseline after around 48 hours post training, so that's something to consider.

2) Progressive overload continually showing more and more to be probably the most important factor. I think that this should always be the focus of a training program, and however you achieve progressive overload is arbitrary.

 

[Braaq]

After reading most of the posts in here I am not going to argue what has been said at all. FB or UB/LB training has its merits as does Split Training. I think executed properly they each can yield results, however, I would not recommend it to an aspiring bodybuilder. Maybe for getting into training I would recommend it, but eventually I would give the nod to Split Training.
No one is necessarily saying any type of training is the Holy Grail over the other so I am fine with that.

 

[tim290280]

^^ Ditto. I'd recommend people finding a training method that they can train hard on regularly that fits their lifestyle and that they can use progressive overload on.

My penchant is for more training for movements throughout the week so that you can actually train different modalities effectively. The ideal way of training is so far out of reach of any of us short of full time athletes.

 

[ddragaon]

"Think things out for yourself,be true to yourself, and only follow routines
that are appropriate for you,practical,and personalized to your individual situation."

From the book BRAWN by Stuart McRobert

 

[Samoan-Z]

^^ Ditto. I'd recommend people finding a training method that they can train hard on regularly that fits their lifestyle and that they can use progressive overload on.

My penchant is for more training for movements throughout the week so that you can actually train different modalities effectively. The ideal way of training is so far out of reach of any of us short of full time athletes.

I believe training is relative like body physiology we are all unique what works for some will not work for others and that's just the way it's always gonna be.

Full body training does not work for me and never has but split training does, so.. I stick wiht split training and all the variations that comes with me. Now that doesn't mean full body training sucks ir's just doesn't work for ME.

 

[tim290280]

"Think things out for yourself,be true to yourself, and only follow routines
that are appropriate for you,practical,and personalized to your individual situation."

From the book BRAWN by Stuart McRobert

Yes Stuart's work is part of the basis of my training thinking.

But an important caveat is that you can't ignore science and facts just because "well everyone else does it that way". So it is important to understand what it is that you doing and applying the principles correctly.

 

[co05]

Wouldn't it make more sense for the pros to use an UB/LB split, what with the increased natural hormonal production in addition to their "supplementation"?

 

[tim290280]

Wouldn't it make more sense for the pros to use an UB/LB split, what with the increased natural hormonal production in addition to their "supplementation"?

Wouldn't it make sense for the pros to stop insinuating that they only used MuscleTech, wouldn't it make sense for them to stop telling people that they can isolate muscle X when they quite clearly can't, wouldn't it make sense for (insert common foible here)............

 

[co05]

Good point.

 

[Psycho]

finally a forum where full body workouts get respect and everyone isnt keen on just following the latest training program from Flex magazine. Is it true that muscletech doesnt work, im sure thats how they all got that big lol

 

[tim290280]

finally a forum where full body workouts get respect and everyone isnt keen on just following the latest training program from Flex magazine. Is it true that muscletech doesnt work, im sure thats how they all got that big lol

 

[jacked475]

I must admit that i've been doing the "split" routine, along with the rest of the planet. I'm willing to give this a shot for 8 weeks. Never stop learning right....