Atheism!

[BigBen]

Don't waste your breath bro, when it comes to arguing about religion, all logic and inconsistencies go out the window. It's like arguing with an Obama supporter.

Glex misunderstood what i typed, and i should have used an example of the truth outside of science, i made that mistake and clarified in my response. Dont act like discussion of anything but science is witchcraft, b/c science, just like all things, is governed by a philosophy which is what we have been discussing. Regardless if you want to understand it or not philosophy plays a role in science, and all other things for that matter.

 

[Braaq]

I think this argument is getting out of hand, it is clear that one will not concede to the other.. so what is the debate continuing for? Unless this is just fun for each and neither side is feeling attacked or insulted. I enjoy reading this thread, but it is looking like BigBen is being attacked for his faith or views rather than a friendly dialogue, no? Either way, hats off to all of you for all the great points in these posts

 

[BigBen]

I´m getting angry at this shit.

Stop arguing about this subject, it's USELESS. You will achieve nothing, nobody will ever change teams or even break a sweat of belief in what the other is saying.

My atheist brothers (lol), don't you realize that a person can bend words in order to make and protect any argument, as stupid as it may be ? This is what happens here, logic is with us, but persistence and faith is with them. Oh really bc i thought philsophy was behind both see even this statment is flawed as a comparison as to what you understand God to be.I could say there is a massive lizard flying in space shooting rainbows, and if I believe in it hard enough, I can find evidence anywhere in our world and back it up by a space lizard fiction book. Now aren't you a rotten lair. Again your comparison shows your lack of understanding about what it is you are insulting. I suggest you understand the philosophy behind what it is you are backing and you will realize what most philosophers already have and that is what paradigms are able to answer.And the fact that some things match up with real events just proves my lizard is real right ?

Atheists, stop it... just feel nice about having reasoning and logic behind your thoughts. So do the religious, you just refuse to learn it so you stay ignorant on the matter and even your ignorance is misguided b/c you don't even understand what you don't understand. You have said nothing truthful in your comparisons to what you understand peoples belief in God to be.

 

[Zigurd]

BigBen are you replying to me ? I thought my post was to end useless discussion.

And man, no disrespect but I don't even care about learning anything about religion... I consider it polluting my mind. I had religion in school, I already know enough to know I hate it and it bothers me you put so much effort into it :3

I'd rather read about Buddhism rather than Christianism. Buddhism sounds like something interesting, not to believe in, but to gather insight from.

 

[Ironslave]

What i mean by that is that science can hold true, but their must be some other paradigms of though to answer the questions science's paradigm can not answer. This previous sentence is the only point i think both sides should both agree on.

Yes, the answer to that is science that we do not yet understand.

I could say there is a massive lizard flying in space shooting rainbows, and if I believe in it hard enough, I can find evidence anywhere in our world and back it up by a space lizard fiction book.

Isnt that what you're doing with the bible though? (yes, it is). How do you know there isn't a massive flying lizard flying around and shooting rainbows? You're doing the same thing with your Christian view of God, there's no physical evidence for it, yet you use philosophy and theism and have yourself convinced that there is... which is just absurd.

I could literally, take every point you are making, and apply it to stating that this lizard exists.

So do the religious, you just refuse to learn it so you stay ignorant on the matter and even your ignorance is misguided b/c you don't even understand what you don't understand. You have said nothing truthful in your comparisons to what you understand peoples belief in God to be.

Ben, please wake up. Show some real evidence, something that we can actually physically see, hear, or anything along those lines. Please, do me this one favor, don't ramble on for hundreds of works about philosophy, current paradigms, and whatever else, please do the following.

Show me one example, that I can physically see or hear, that shows evidence that god exists. Do it in less than 100 words, make it short, concise, jot noted, whatever, just give me one real short example.

 

[BigBen]

Yes, the answer to that is science that we do not yet understand.
NO, the answer cannot be science bc science cannot answer that question. Science answers "how" it will NEVER answer why b/c its governing paradigm does not allow it too.


Isnt that what you're doing with the bible though? no(yes, it is). How do you know there isn't a massive flying lizard flying around and shooting rainbows? Your mistaking the definiteness of God with imagination. They are two separate entities. The infinite being God which is flawless, and the finite our imagination which is flawed. If our imagination was not flawed then we we be unable to think thoughts that we know are not true(assuming that their really is a true)You're doing the same thing with your Christian view of God, there's no physical evidence for it, yet you use philosophy and theism and have yourself convinced that there is... which is just absurd. The physical evidence for Christianity is Jesus Christ. The logical thinking behind it is the same type of thinking behind science, which is philosophy.



I could literally, take every point you are making, and apply it to stating that this lizard exists.


The lizard was created in the imagination thus it is subject to being false. God exists as He does not in our imagination but in reality. If you say God exists in your imagination then that would not be God b/c your imagination is where fallacies are allowed. You can only think about God in the terms of His existence otherwise He is not God. God does exist b/c His nature is to exist.

Ben, please wake up. Show some real evidence, something that we can actually physically see, hear, or anything along those lines. Please, do me this one favor, don't ramble on for hundreds of works about philosophy, current paradigms, and whatever else, please do the following.

Show me one example, that I can physically see or hear, that shows evidence that god exists. Do it in less than 100 words, make it short, concise, jot noted, whatever, just give me one real short example.

It becomes a matter of having faith in something if you want to answer the question "why" b/c the answer to this question will never have physical proof besides the creation itself being proof of God existing. The nature of "how" is to have physical proof. The nature of "why" is faith.

 

[Glex]

First of all, I didn't misunderstand you. I knew what you were trying to say, but I purposely misrepresented your position. It's a straw man fallacy, I was waiting to see if you'd pick up on it.

Anyway:

What i mean by that is that science can hold true, but their must be some other paradigms of though to answer the questions science's paradigm can not answer. This previous sentence is the only point i think both sides should both agree on.

There MUST not be anything, Ben! The questions could be UNANSWERABLE. It MAY take science and spirituality and grammar, let's say, to understand the true nature of reality, but it also MAY be completely absurd to pursue such an answer.

Proving that your 'why' question is unanswerable would ironically would give an answer, but good luck with that. It's easiest for both sides to concede that the other could be right on the main question: creator or no?

However, given that there may be a creator, you can certainly argue against the paradigm that proclaims they know of his/her/its nature if he/she/it exists. I don't think I'll ever dispute the possibility of some higher plane of reality, but I will dispute the bible. It's stupid.

 

[BigBen]

Glex,

I agree with you, we may not be able to comprehend the answer to "why"


I think we have reached as close to an agreement as we are ever going to.

For my own peace I'm going to

/end participation in thread i am satisfied

 

[Ironslave]

The lizard was created in the imagination thus it is subject to being false. God exists as He does not in our imagination but in reality. If you say God exists in your imagination then that would not be God b/c your imagination is where fallacies are allowed. You can only think about God in the terms of His existence otherwise He is not God. God does exist b/c His nature is to exist.

Learn history, Ben. God didn't create man, man created God.

 

[Hypocrisy86]

MY penis is God.
there end of argument.

 

[El Freako]

I'm glad this thread is finishing, its doing my head in trying to argue with Ben. More lifting, less thought!!!

 

[Pioneer]

God does know all, He knows all possible happenings. So when He made covenants with man God knew they could work or they could not work mans free will would decide what happened, but either way he knew the result of what would happen mans free will was the deciding factor of what did happen. When history happened in definite time God was not ignorant of that possibility, thus He knew all. Ignorance is the absence of knowledge God knew all possibilities, God was not ignorant.

Dont think this really answer's anything it just seems to prove that god is not our creater.
Also you say he knows all then go on to say "God knew they could work or they could not work" They work or not... sounds like your saying he doesnt know hes just relying on probability?

Anyway lets end this pointless thread. And like stated in my earlier post im in no way trying to offend you just looking for answers.

 

[alex]

big ben you are out of your mind dude!!!!!you speak with such greatness for someone that you have not see in your life and you will never see simply because he does not exist

 

[alex]

religion... I consider it polluting my mind. I had religion in school, I already know enough

this why religious preachers are fucking scumbags they know where to sell their shit,childrens! they know that a childs brain is easy to convince!
can you imagine it?lets say you had never heard anything about religion until you where an adult,seeing all the shit we see in this fucked up world we live where human consumes human and all of a sudden someone came to you and told you--hey do you know that there is a god that created this shitness in 6 days and he has 10 orders for you that you must not violate them or else you are going to burn in eternal fire!!!!!!!!but he loves you tho and if you praise him and his fagot son you will go to heaven!!would anybody believe that bullshit if it wasnt forced into his childish brain?i dont think so


christianity should be considered as the lamest bullshit ever thought by man

 

[alex]

^being sarcastic towards the almighty god that is everywhere but still nowhere is blasphemy and blasphemers go to hell son