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Clen or ephedrine which way to go?

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Painispleasure

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I want to lose as much fat as possible in the next 2 months while keeping as much muscle as possible.

Ive heard clen raises your metabolism higher but is also more catabolic, so I dont know If the trade off would be more benefical than taking ephedrine.

What is your guys opinion on this?
 
Workingatit46

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Hard to say have you ever run either before? Clen can cause some major sides but ephedrine can also just not to the extent of the Clen:xyxthumbs:
 
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Painispleasure

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Ive never had the need to use a supplement for weight loss Ive always been able to do it with diet alone but right now I want to lose as much fat as possible in a short time.
 
Duality

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i would say clen is a solid choice, but it will honestly do next to nothing (literally) if your diet is not absolutely perfect. i noticed when i started taking it it really didnt' do much more than raise my heart rate. however i must sing praise for T3. though i would NEVER recommend running it without gear, it seemed to help me lose some weight in places i was having a little trouble with.
 
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Painispleasure

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So no ones used any of these?? Speak up whatd you use and what results did you get?
 
cjsweetsmoke

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Used them both. Clen is much better. I find ephedrine kinda kills your pump too.
 
bambam55

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I've used ephedrine. You want to start off slow with it to see what your tolerance is. It will help to drop some fat pretty quick though. I dont think it takes away from the pump from what I've experienced. I'm sure Clen is much stronger though.
 
youngmusclejock

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Clen Is not catabolic.
 
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Painispleasure

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I just placed my order for the clen/taurine combo at CEM. Ill let you guys know how it goes. The goal is to lose 15+ pounds in 6 weeks. My mindset is there and Im positive I will or get damn close.
 
bambam55

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let us know how it works out for you
 
Workingatit46

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If you use Clen watch the blood pressure it can be a problem that can also be true of ephedra:xyxthumbs:
 
Duality

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Clen Is not catabolic.


it's main way of functioning is through the release of catabolic hormones actually, so technically it is. however i've used it and have not experienced any negative muscle effects (besides cramping). it has never been proven to aid in muscle building in humans though it has in animals, however animals have one more B receptor than we do and that is what is believed to have caused the increase in muscular size, though some bbers will swear it has minor muscle building effects it is nothing but heresay.
 
youngmusclejock

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it's main way of functioning is through the release of catabolic hormones actually, so technically it is. however i've used it and have not experienced any negative muscle effects (besides cramping). it has never been proven to aid in muscle building in humans though it has in animals, however animals have one more B receptor than we do and that is what is believed to have caused the increase in muscular size, though some bbers will swear it has minor muscle building effects it is nothing but heresay.


What is Clenbuterol?

Clenbuterol is a beta-2 agonist and is used in many countries as a broncodilator
for the treatment of asthma. Because of its long half-life, clenbuterol is not
FDA approved for medical use. It is a central nervous system stimulant and acts
like adrenaline. It shares many of the same side effects as other CNS stimulants
like ephedrine. Contrary to popular belief, Clenbuterol has a half-life of 35
hours and not 48 hours.

Dosing and Cycling

Clenbuterol comes in 20mcg tablets, although it is also available in syrup, pump and injectable form. It's also available as a powder in some areas. Doses are very dependent on how well the user responds to the side effects, but somewhere in the range of 4-8 tablets per day for men and 2-4 tablets a day for women is most common. Clenbuterol loses its thermogenic effects after around 8 weeks when
body temperature drops back to normal. Its anabolic/anti-catabolic properties fade away at around the 18-day mark. Taking the long half-life into consideration, the most effective way of cycling clen is 2 weeks on/ 2 weeks off for no more than 12 weeks. Ephedrine or Yohimbine can be used in the off weeks.

Clenbuterol vs Ephedrine vs DNP

Ephedrine will raise metabolic levels by about 2-3 percent and 200mg of DNP raises metabolic levels by about 30 percent. Clenbuterol raises metabolic levels about 10 percent and it can raise body temperature several degrees.

DNP is by far the most effective fat burner but many people will never use it because of the risks associated with it. It also offers no anti-catabolic benefit. Although it does have anti-catabolic effect, ephedrine's short half-life prevents it from being all that effective.

As far as side effects, Clenbuterol's are certainly milder than DNP's, and some
would even say milder than an ECA stack. There is no ECA-style crash on
Clenbuterol and many users find it easier on the prostate and sex drive. This
may in part be due to the fact that Clen is generally used for only 2 weeks at a
time.

Side effects

NAUSEA
NERVOUSNESS
DIZZINESS
DROWSINESS
DRY MOUTH
FACIAL FLUSHING
HEADACHE
HEARTBURN
INCREASED BLOOD PRESSURE
INCREASED SWEATING
INSOMNIA
LIGHTHEADEDNESS
MUSCLE CRAMPS
TREMORS
VOMITING
CHEST PAIN

The most significant side effects are muscle cramps, nervousness, headaches, and
increased blood pressure.

Muscle cramps can be avoided by drinking 1.5-2 gallons of water and consuming
bananas and oranges or supplementing with potassium tablets at 200-400mg a
day taken before bed on an empty stomach. Taurine at 3-5grams is a necessity in
minimizing cramps.

Headaches can easily be avoided with Tylenol Extra Strength taking at the first
signs of a headache.

Common Uses

Post-Cycle Therapy: Clen is used post cycle to aid in recovery. It allows the
user to continue eating large amounts of food, without worrying about adding
body fat. It also helps the user maintain more of his strength as well as his
intensity in the gym. Diet: Roughly the same as on cycle.

Fat loss: The most popular use for Clen, it also increases muscle hardness,
vascularity, strength and size on a caloric deficit. For the most significant
fat loss, Clen can be stacked with T3. Diet: A high protein (1.5g per lb of
bodyweight), moderate carb(0.5g to 1g per lb of bodyweight), low fat diet(0.25g
per lb of bodyweight) seems to work best with Clen.

Alternative to Steroids: Clenbuterol has mild steroid-like properties and can be
used by non-AS using bodybuilder to increase LBM as well as strength and muscle
hardness. Diet: A moderate carb, high protein, moderate fat diet work well.

Stimulant/Performance Enhancement: It can be used as a stimulant, but an ECA
stack may be a better choice because of it's much shorter half-life. Diet: To
take full advantage of the stimulatory effects of Clen, carbohydrates must be
included in the diet. Ketogenic diets do not work well in this case.

Precautions: Is Clen for you?

The same precautions that apply to Ephedrine must be applied to Clen, although
some people find ECA stacks are harsher than Clen. It should not be stacked
with other CNS stimulants such as Ephedrine and Yohimbine. These combinations
are unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Caffeine can be used in moderation
before a workout for an extra quick burst of energy.

A word on Ketotifen

Ketotifen is safe antihistamine used extensively some European countries to
treat asthma and allergies. It can up regulate beta-2-receptors that Clen down
regulates. Basically, it allows users to extend their use of Clen for 6-8 weeks
at a time. 2-3mg a day is ideal, 10mg as found in "superclen", can make users
extremely drowsy. It also increases the effectiveness of Clen so doses must be
adjusted accordingly. The downfall of this drug is its ability to induce
extreme hunger is some people, which is not a desirable state to be in when
dieting.

Cycling Clenbuterol

Most users that report bad side effects and discontinue use are those who use
high doses right at the start of the cycle. The worst side effects occur within
the first 3-4 days of use.

A first time user should not exceed 40mcg the first day. Increase by one tab
until the side effects are not tolerable

Example of a first cycle:

Day1: 20mcg
Day2: 40mcg
Day3: 60mcg
Day4: 80mcg
Day5: 80mcg(Note: Increase the dose only when the side effects are tolerable)
Day6-Day12: 100mcg
Day13: 80 mcg (Tapering is not necessary, but it helps some users get back to
normal gradually)
Day14: 60 mcg
Day15: off
Day16: off
Day 17: ECA/ NYC stack

Example of a second cycle:

Day1: 60mcg
Day2: 80mcg
Day3: 80mcg
Day4: 100mcg
Day5: 100mcg
Day6-Day12: 120mcg
Day13: 100 mcg
Day14: 80 mcg
Day15: off
Day16: off
Day 17: ECA/ NYC stack

What else do I need to know?

Taurine MUST be used with Clen at 3-5g daily. Clenbuterol depletes taurine
levels in the liver, which stops the conversion of T4 to T3 in the liver.
Taurine allows the user to avoid the dreaded rebound effect and painful muscle
cramps. It's a must with Clen.

Clenbuterol should not be taken too close to a workout. It can interfere with
your breathing and completely ruin your workout. When doing cardio, it's
advisable to stay at a consistent pace and avoid HIIT style routines.


Hope this helps. Also, check out "Matt from SM"s thread. He's done a ton of research on Clen and T3.
 
Duality

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Originally posted by youngmusclejock
Clenbuterol is a beta-2 agonist and is used in many countries as a broncodilator
for the treatment of asthma. Because of its long half-life, clenbuterol is not
FDA approved for medical use. It is a central nervous system stimulant and acts
like adrenaline. It shares many of the same side effects as other CNS stimulants
like ephedrine. Contrary to popular belief, Clenbuterol has a half-life of 35
hours and not 48 hours.

Although it does have anti-catabolic effect, ephedrine's short half-life prevents it from being all that effective.

the part you so obnoxiously highlighted is referring to ephedrine, what's your point?


did you not know that adrenaline is a catabolic compound? it would seem to me you posted such an article to disprove what i had said. from what i glanced over this does no such thing.

clen does act to secrete catabolic hormones, exhibit A:

In terms of action this drug is best likened to the now also illegal ephedrine and its legal replacement, ma huang. All of them operate mainly by increasing the manufacture and secretion of catabolic hormones known as cathecholamines (like dopamine, epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine (noradrenaline)) which are secreted from the adrenal region. Now these hormones have a wide variety of functions. First of all they seem to alter the contractile characteristics of smooth muscle, but very specifically. Some will apparently be stimulated, and others inhibited. Amongst those inhibited, the smooth muscles in the bronchial tree, which explains its soothing effect in patients with breathing problems. What it also does is increase thermogenisis. This usually encompasses a rise in blood pressure, a stimulatory effect of the heart muscle and a resulting rise in body temperature.
 
bambam55

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I can tell Duality has really researched his stuff. reps for him. I believe they both cause an increase in cortisol and that could cause some of the catabolic affect.

I've actually never heard someone say that Clen was not catabolic.
 
Duality

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ya i would never use anything without being fully educated and aware of it's effects/side effects and mechanism of action. some guys claim it's not catabolic from a personal usage standpoint and that's fine, but from a scientific standpoint it is a catabolic drug or at least that's how it works.
 
Hypocrisy86

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can you smoke ephedra? :carduindisguise
 
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Painispleasure

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Young muscle jock you should source the stuff you post if its not from you. You make it seem like you wrote all that info about clen but in reality ive seen it on several forums.
 
bambam55

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haha smoke ephedra... I bet you would get all itchy and sweat balls.... you know what go for it for the sake of "science" haha




edit-
I'm smoking the eca stack as we speak lol
 

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