Debate challenge: Ironslave vs. Rageking's sister (Paul vs. Obama)

[Bulkboy]

sorry. I have just never heard a legitimate reason why someone wouldn't support Ron Paul.

thats why 95% of the population dont support him and probably never will

guys please, its fine that u like ron paul but u dont need to get all fanatic about it. let others have their views.

how about this, maybe, just maybe not everyone wants to witdraw every US troop from every corner of the world.

maybe not everyone wants to pull out of UN and NATO.

maybe not everyone wants to take away half the governments revenues, because they know that the money needs to be taken from somewhere.

maybe not everyone wants to abolish the CIA and FBI

i mean i have great respect for ron in the sense that hes a stand up guy, and he says things alot of others wouldnt dare to say, but that doesent mean i have to agree with him politically, and thats what alot of others think too.

i mean cmon stop the whining about him not getting enough publicity etc, he was the only candidate campaigning in Main, and he still lost like hell. just face the fact that most people will never identify with his opinions.

 

[Mygeeto]

thats why 95% of the population dont support him and probably never will

guys please, its fine that u like ron paul but u dont need to get all fanatic about it. let others have their views.


how about this, maybe, just maybe not everyone wants to witdraw every US troop from every corner of the world.

maybe not everyone wants to pull out of UN and NATO.


maybe not everyone wants to take away half the governments revenues, because they know that the money needs to be taken from somewhere.

maybe not everyone wants to abolish the CIA and FBI

i mean i have great respect for ron in the sense that hes a stand up guy, and he says things alot of others wouldnt dare to say, but that doesent mean i have to agree with him politically, and thats what alot of others think too.

i mean cmon stop the whining about him not getting enough publicity etc, he was the only candidate campaigning in Main, and he still lost like hell. just face the fact that most people will never identify with his opinions.

who do you support?

 

[Bulkboy]

who do you support?

im not really an very stand up supporter for anyone, but i tend to like mitt romney more. also i like john mccain for his view on global warming

 

[Ironslave]

how about this, maybe, just maybe not everyone wants to witdraw every US troop from every corner of the world.

Why should US troops be there in the first place? They don't stabilize anything, quite the opposite. Why should American soldiers be at risk for getting killed, furthermore, with a tanking economy, why should Americans pay to keep troops stationed in 130 countries around the world.

maybe not everyone wants to pull out of UN and NATO.

What does NATO do? Here's some history, NATO was formed for the purpose of defense against communist countries in eastern europe. It achieved its purpose and there is no reason for them to continue to exist, since the end of the cold war, there has been no threat at all from a country attacking America or a Western Europe country in a war. Now, they are involved in offensive and interventionist missions, ie, through NATO, American troops invading the Balkans. More on NATO.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul171.html

http://www.fdrs.org/nato_facts.html

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=139

maybe not everyone wants to take away half the governments revenues, because they know that the money needs to be taken from somewhere.

huh? the Income tax is one third of federal government revenues for one, second, what are you talking about?? People pay for these government programs through their taxes, who in their right mind wants to throw away their hard earned money to fight wars and pad the pockets of higher ups in Washington for programs that accomplish fuck all?

maybe not everyone wants to abolish the CIA and FBI

Strawman, see my first post on the rules of a debate. Never claim someone has a position which they don't, he doesn't want to abolish them, he wants to downsize them, and abolish their covert missions and all the other bullshit they do. The CIA has committed countless acts of aggression against countries, Iran, Cuba, Nicaragua, Pakistan, dozens upon dozens more.

i mean i have great respect for ron in the sense that hes a stand up guy, and he says things alot of others wouldnt dare to say, but that doesent mean i have to agree with him politically, and thats what alot of others think too.

People who don't agree with him are ones who don't understand his positions, or they are wrong about what his positions are, this post is a perfect example.

i mean cmon stop the whining about him not getting enough publicity etc, he was the only candidate campaigning in Main, and he still lost like hell. just face the fact that most people will never identify with his opinions.

okay, and Romney using his own millions of dollars bussing countless people in wasn't campaigning?? He's within striking distance of McCain for 2nd place there as well.

im not really an very stand up supporter for anyone, but i tend to like mitt romney more. also i like john mccain for his view on global warming

Why do you like Romney?

LOL @ Global warming, like thats even an issue seeing as the scientists investigating it can't even agree it's real, or that there's anything we can do about it.

 

[Tech]

im not really an very stand up supporter for anyone, but i tend to like mitt romney more. also i like john mccain for his view on global warming

lol.

Im guessing you like George Bush?

 

[Flex]

guys please, its fine that u like ron paul but u dont need to get all fanatic about it. let others have their views.

Have their views? He called Ron Paul looney and can't back it up. Like Ironslave is saying, if you think Ron Paul is looney you don't understand his positions or you're brainwashed.

how about this, maybe, just maybe not everyone wants to witdraw every US troop from every corner of the world.

Yes they do, they just don't know it yet. This is an unwinnable war and there's not one reason we should be over there. Tell me why we should be fighting in Iraq? Does it make you sleep better at night?

i mean cmon stop the whining about him not getting enough publicity etc, he was the only candidate campaigning in Main, and he still lost like hell. just face the fact that most people will never identify with his opinions.

You don't have a right to say this because you don't have the MSM here. Most people think Ron Paul has dropped from the race, they don't even know he's still running. He's hasn't gotten mentioned since December, while others are getting 24/7 publicity. Why would someone vote for Ron Paul when John McCain is shoved into their face all day. Even when the MSM brings up money raised in the 4th quarter, they don't mention Ron even though he was clearly the highest raiser. Twice as much money raised as any other candidate and all done without the help of corporations, yet they can't even mention his name. Not to mention the most amount of money donated from the military, which tells it all.

 

[Tech]

 

[Rageking]

why take away the income tax, you said its a third of our nations revenue?
thats a lot, and we are already in debt. yes we need to cut spending, but cutting revenues wont help the situation.
where does ron paul want to get the money from if not income tax? he can cut enough spending to make up for a third of our nations revenue?

 

[Braaq]

why take away the income tax, you said its a third of our nations revenue?
thats a lot, and we are already in debt. yes we need to cut spending, but cutting revenues wont help the situation.
where does ron paul want to get the money from if not income tax? he can cut enough spending to make up for a third of our nations revenue?

That was a bad start, but Im looking forward to seeing IS's rebuttle. Good Luck

 

[Ironslave]

why take away the income tax, you said its a third of our nations revenue?
thats a lot, and we are already in debt. yes we need to cut spending, but cutting revenues wont help the situation.
where does ron paul want to get the money from if not income tax? he can cut enough spending to make up for a third of our nations revenue?

Why pay it? Wouldn't you rather keep your money?

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/256/

http://www.devvy.com/notax.html

 

[high_five]

why take away the income tax, you said its a third of our nations revenue?
thats a lot, and we are already in debt. yes we need to cut spending, but cutting revenues wont help the situation.
where does ron paul want to get the money from if not income tax? he can cut enough spending to make up for a third of our nations revenue?

This debate is useless if you don't read the links Ironslave posts, which he showed you earlier on this topic and you obviously didn't read.

 

[TJ]

At least I am beginning to understand why people do not support Ron Paul; way too many misconceptions or misunderstandings about his stance on issues.

EDIT: Which is sad because the future of our country may be destroyed because people did not to their own research and chose to be spoon fed by the media.

 

[The Creator]

2 questions...
1)Do you guys that support ron paul really support every one of his positions on every topic? Not trying to debate, just curious...

2) IS, are you ron paul??

 

[Bulkboy]

Why should US troops be there in the first place? They don't stabilize anything, quite the opposite. Why should American soldiers be at risk for getting killed, furthermore, with a tanking economy, why should Americans pay to keep troops stationed in 130 countries around the world.

you dont think the US have any responsibility after invading the country to stay there until things atleast settle down abit? and they do stabilize, seriously i can guarantee you that the situation would be alot worse if US troops werent there.

the situation is also improving, the surge is working, you are the one being spoonfed by the media here obviously, u only listen to the bad news, fact is that in alot of regions in iraq things are going alot better now, the surge is working and casualties, both civillians and military personell is down. just look ill gurantee you that things will keep improving. i think the US should keep troops around the world yes, offcourse some areas are less relevant than others, but as the only remaining superpower the US should keep troops stationed in case of an emergency

What does NATO do? Here's some history, NATO was formed for the purpose of defense against communist countries in eastern europe. It achieved its purpose and there is no reason for them to continue to exist, since the end of the cold war, there has been no threat at all from a country attacking America or a Western Europe country in a war. Now, they are involved in offensive and interventionist missions, ie, through NATO, American troops invading the Balkans.

dude i know why nato was formed, and although communism is defeated that doesent mean that new threats cannot emerge, why not stay ally? with russia arming again and china emerging as a new superpower situations u cannot predict today may occur later, and therefore i think its essential to keep strong ties between allies in the western world. we have succeeded together before, why throw that on the fire?

yeah balkans was a interventionist mission? jesus, fucking genicide was happening there, u dont think we have any responsibility whatsoever to stop such things from happening? maybe we should have just let hitler slaughter the whole jewish population during ww2 then?

huh? the Income tax is one third of federal government revenues for one, second, what are you talking about?? People pay for these government programs through their taxes, who in their right mind wants to throw away their hard earned money to fight wars and pad the pockets of higher ups in Washington for programs that accomplish fuck all?

yeah offcourse its all for war and higher ups in washington? be serious here dude, i guess it all comes down to whether or now you want a goverment that doesent take responsibility for much other than defense or like me have realized that government has a role to play in a modern society. those money go for education, social security and pensions, thats something a society should treasure and its field where an active federal government is required imo

Strawman, see my first post on the rules of a debate. Never claim someone has a position which they don't, he doesn't want to abolish them, he wants to downsize them, and abolish their covert missions and all the other bullshit they do. The CIA has committed countless acts of aggression against countries, Iran, Cuba, Nicaragua, Pakistan, dozens upon dozens more.

i agree cia have done some speculative business through the years, but i still think its a valuable asset along with FBI to maintain national security. what about FBI, what have they done that calls for their abolishment?

People who don't agree with him are ones who don't understand his positions, or they are wrong about what his positions are, this post is a perfect example.

dude i understand his positions, and i DISAGREE WITH THEM!!! and thank god so does almost everyone else... i like him cause hes a stand up guy and says alot of controversial things which is valuable in every political debate. i agree with him about the blowback theory for example, and that is something i think should be converted into political reality, however im so far away from him on most other areas that i would never even think of supporting him.

Why do you like Romney?

see my response to mygeeto.

LOL @ Global warming, like thats even an issue seeing as the scientists investigating it can't even agree it's real, or that there's anything we can do about it.

yeah global warming isnt a real issue jesus and u call me ignorant, most scientists agree that its a real issue, thus the reason for the kyoto protocol that most of the world has signed except for the US to protect economic interests. the australian howard government had to leave office solely because of their unwillingness to sign that treaty. i think most of the world now has woken up to the fact that carbon emissions does infact cause heating of the earth, man how many more signs do we need? look at all the crazy weather we have had lately, i mean i would expect you of all people to atleast agree with me on this subject, but i guess since ron paul doesent acknowledge it you cant either.

private property right is the solution to all the environmental problems!!!

 

[TJ]

1)Do you guys that support ron paul really support every one of his positions on every topic? Not trying to debate, just curious...

I certainly do not support Ron on every issue. However, most of the big issues (economy, war, social security, small govt, etc) I do fully agree with him.

 

[TJ]

yeah global warming isnt a real issue jesus and u call me ignorant, most scientists agree that its a real issue, thus the reason for the kyoto protocol that most of the world has signed except for the US to protect economic interests. the australian howard government had to leave office solely because of their unwillingness to sign that treaty. i think most of the world now has woken up to the fact that carbon emissions does infact cause heating of the earth, man how many more signs do we need? look at all the crazy weather we have had lately, i mean i would expect you of all people to atleast agree with me on this subject, but i guess since ron paul doesent acknowledge it you cant either.

private property right is the solution to all the environmental problems!!!

Calm down bulkboy. I suggest you take a look at The Great Conveyor Belt and get an understanding of it. I am 100% certain that people have contributed to global warming. But, the earth goes through natural cooling and warming phases which are beyond our control. Most people know that if global warming continues we could enter another ice age. So, what do these people think caused the first two ice ages?

 

[Braaq]

At least I am beginning to understand why people do not support Ron Paul; way too many misconceptions or misunderstandings about his stance on issues.

EDIT: Which is sad because the future of our country may be destroyed because people did not to their own research and chose to be spoon fed by the media.

This is true for the most part, but Bulkboy is educated and does understand the issues. I think we can all agree on that, he just perceaves them differently than we (Ron Paul supporters) do. He obviously is not American, so has no voice on voting, but he has done his research. All this is coming down to is how we and he perceaves different issues and how to solve them. That is it really.

 

[Ironslave]

2 questions...
1)Do you guys that support ron paul really support every one of his positions on every topic? Not trying to debate, just curious...

Not every single one, but pretty much all them. I mean, I think there should be a role for America in the UN (which is why I didn't comment on that) but certainly not part of the way things are going now. America should not be the sole policemen of the world, because there exists too much corruption and wasted money.

But when it comes down to it, his overall theme is pretty well spot on.

2) IS, are you ron paul??

I can only hope that in my life I will have 1% of the impact on humanity that Ron Paul had and continues to have, if so I will have accomplished a lot.

 

[German_Joe]

Why does America have the obligation to have presence in other countries.... because their large and powerful

America holds over 700 military bases overseas in over a 130 countries. Imagine the funds that are required to keep those facilities. It only seems logical to pull out of the majority of these countries. It seems like a good choice economically and defensively. "Empires always fail when they are stretched beyond their means". How many times have we heard this qoute. I dont understand all this babbling about protecting and helping other nations. Priorities need to be set, such as homeland security, economic problems and relief efforts for natural disasters . Problems need to be solved on American soil before we even begin to worry about other nations.

Whats all this nonsense about saving face, that point in time has come and gone long ago. Yes there will be casualties if we leave, but im willing to bet that there will be far more if we continue to occupy iraq (upto a 100 years if necessay... courtesy of John McCain)

How Unpatriotic not to support your troops and country

My answer to that. how unpatriotic to wipe your ass with the constitution, by intervening with the affairs of other countries and entering into nationbuilding.

Im from Canada.... might as well be American i wonder when that day will come

 

[Braaq]

Im from Canada.... might as well be American i wonder when that day will come

Great post

On one note, if this is true (which I think it is) I wonder why Canadians "hate" the US so much when they owe almost everything they have to the United States. Their security, and economy are practically taken care of by us... I call it being ungreatful.