Debate challenge: Ironslave vs. Rageking's sister (Paul vs. Obama)

[German_Joe]

Great post

On one note, if this is true (which I think it is) I wonder why Canadians "hate" the US so much when they owe almost everything they have to the United States. Their security, and economy are practically taken care of by us... I call it being ungreatful.

thanks, I presonally dont hate americans. I hate ignorance and people that are spoonfed information by the media outlets. So to be blunt I hate the ignorance in the general public all around the globe. It upsets me to see people that would vote for someone because they seem nice

 

[Ironslave]

Bulkboy, I don't know why you even bother. I've owned you on this before, here goes once again....

you dont think the US have any responsibility after invading the country to stay there until things atleast settle down abit? and they do stabilize, seriously i can guarantee you that the situation would be alot worse if US troops werent there.

the situation is also improving, the surge is working, you are the one being spoonfed by the media here obviously, u only listen to the bad news, fact is that in alot of regions in iraq things are going alot better now, the surge is working and casualties, both civillians and military personell is down. just look ill gurantee you that things will keep improving. i think the US should keep troops around the world yes, offcourse some areas are less relevant than others, but as the only remaining superpower the US should keep troops stationed in case of an emergency

I'm the one being spoofed by the media?! LOL, all the media says is how much "the surge is working, the surge is working!!", thats complete bullshit. You are basing everything you have just said 100% from mainstream media sources, thats a fact. Tech said it best in a previous post, Saddam killed a few thousand of his own people (supposedly, this is not a completely accepted fact, but regardless, if he did, he did it with weapons that were given to him by the US Government.) Who the fuck is the surge against? If one million people have died as a result of the war (see link), theres obviously a lot less people there to kill.

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23136821-5012778,00.html

Center for American Progress posted their "Iraqi Bench Mark Report Card" . The report is based on 18 benchmarks required by H.R. 2206 (May 07 Appropriations bill). Guess how many have been met in the year since the surge? A whopping 3 out of 18.

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2008/01/benchmark.html

Why the fuck can you seriously not get it through your head that American troops DESTABILIZE, not stabilize. Everything is fucked up since the Invasion and Iraqi's (those who aren't dead, or don't have family dead or homes destroyed) are much worse off.

The United Nations Development Program (UNDP) conducted a survey, it found that 23 percent of children between six months and five years suffer from chronic malnutrition, while 12 percent suffer from general malnutrition, and 8 percent experience acute malnutrition. Only 54 percent of households nationwide have access to a "safe and stable" supply of drinking water, the figure skyrockets up to 80% in rural areas.

Health care is shit, the report cites "lack of health personnel, lack of medicines, non-functioning medical equipment and destroyed hospitals and health centers."

How the fuck can you seriously say the situation would be worse without American troops, how could it possibly get any worse?? Check this out Bulkboy, America is paying 70,000 "former insurgents" $10 a day to form neighborhood watches instead of fighting us. Cost is approximately $250 million/year.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17899543

America is there for the entire military industrialist complex and Israel protection bullshit, they are there to steal $30 trillion dollars of oil in Iraq, how the hell will Iraq citizens ever be okay with that?

They should keep troops around the world in case of emergency?? What the fuck kind of emergency could be worse than a bullshit war that America raged in Iraq that killed hundreds of thousands of people??

dude i know why nato was formed, and although communism is defeated that doesent mean that new threats cannot emerge, why not stay ally? with russia arming again and china emerging as a new superpower situations u cannot predict today may occur later, and therefore i think its essential to keep strong ties between allies in the western world. we have succeeded together before, why throw that on the fire?

Why is it "wrong" for Russia and China to arm, yet its okay for America? Russia and China haven't lied their way into invading countries and killed a million people, last I checked. Furthermore, what country in it's right mind would ever attack America? They have tens of thousands of nuclear bombs, if any country was stupid and suicidal enough to attack America, they'd be whiped off the map with the push of a button. It seriously baffles me how people can be so fucking stupid to think that some country is going to suddenly get a death wish and attack America. Once again, last I checked, America is the ones starting the wars and doing the killing.

yeah balkans was a interventionist mission? jesus, fucking genicide was happening there, u dont think we have any responsibility whatsoever to stop such things from happening? maybe we should have just let hitler slaughter the whole jewish population during ww2 then?

How about the fact that we're slaughtering the Iraqi people? I think there is a role to stop things, but how about America funding the "freedom fighters" to go and slaughter civilians in Nicaragua? If you think America goes into countries on their white horse to save the helpless people you are dead wrong. I'm for doing something, but why should it just be America? Why should America go bankrupt? Here are some quotes:

"Writing recently in Liberty Magazine, David Ramsey Steele points out that in Kosovo we were told before the bombings that there was mass genocide occurring, the figure of ‘100,000 or more’ was tossed around even though there was no evidence to back-up this claim.

"… Later after the NATO bombs began dropping, the official NATO claim was dropped to around 10,000 as it became clear no mass graves or killing fields even existed.

"The actual number of people found in the reported mass-graves totals slightly more than 2,000, a far cry from the hundreds of thousands that we were told originally.

"The loss of 2,000 lives is a great tragedy, but there are more Americans than that killed domestically every year and it hardly warrants the kind of violent response we saw in Kosovo.

"In fact, Mr. Steele states that Kosovo was safer than any major U.S. city prior to the NATO bombing.

"… the truth of the matter is they (Kosovars) were being forced from their homes because of the danger and destruction being caused by NATO bombing in the region. If anything, this so-called ethnic cleansing appears as a direct result of NATO action.

"… Congress has shirked both its Constitutional responsibility to declare war before U.S. troops are sent into battle and its oversight responsibility to closely monitor the administration in its carrying out of foreign policy.

So, around 2000 people died because of the genocide? America has probably killed that many in a week in Iraq.

yeah offcourse its all for war and higher ups in washington? be serious here dude, i guess it all comes down to whether or now you want a goverment that doesent take responsibility for much other than defense or like me have realized that government has a role to play in a modern society. those money go for education, social security and pensions, thats something a society should treasure and its field where an active federal government is required imo

If it wasn't for covert reasons, give me one legit reason why America invaded Iraq? They flat out fucking lied about everything.

I'm not advocating an anarchist government, but look what happens when big government happens, education turns to shit (see my post in the dept of Education thread) and people go broke trying to fund it.

i agree cia have done some speculative business through the years, but i still think its a valuable asset along with FBI to maintain national security. what about FBI, what have they done that calls for their abolishment?

Are you even reading my posts? I'll say it again, capital letters: HE DOES NOT WANT TO COMPLETELY ABOLISH THEM. This is the reason why people don't support Ron Paul, they're ignorant on his positions.

dude i understand his positions, and i DISAGREE WITH THEM!!! and thank god so does almost everyone else...

I've never met anybody who heard and understood his positions be able to intelligently disagree with the vast majority of them. This remains true after reading your post.

like him cause hes a stand up guy and says alot of controversial things which is valuable in every political debate. i agree with him about the blowback theory for example, and that is something i think should be converted into political reality, however im so far away from him on most other areas that i would never even think of supporting him.

That crazy constitution, sound money, responsible spending, ending wars, what a nut!!! :ihavesandinmyvagina

yeah global warming isnt a real issue jesus and u call me ignorant, most scientists agree that its a real issue, thus the reason for the kyoto protocol that most of the world has signed except for the US to protect economic interests. the australian howard government had to leave office solely because of their unwillingness to sign that treaty. i think most of the world now has woken up to the fact that carbon emissions does infact cause heating of the earth, man how many more signs do we need? look at all the crazy weather we have had lately, i mean i would expect you of all people to atleast agree with me on this subject, but i guess since ron paul doesent acknowledge it you cant either.

Global warming debate could be another whole thread I could own you on. Anyways, lets hear from the founder of the weather channel. Regardless, if it is occuring, the sun is infinitely times more responsible than any human omissions.

It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create in [sic] allusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the "research" to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.

Environmental extremists, notable politicians among them, then teamed up with movie, media and other liberal, environmentalist journalists to create this wild "scientific" scenario of the civilization threatening environmental consequences from Global Warming unless we adhere to their radical agenda. Now their ridiculous manipulated science has been accepted as fact and become a cornerstone issue for CNN, CBS, NBC, the Democratic Political Party, the Governor of California, school teachers and, in many cases, well informed but very gullible environmental conscientious citizens. Only one reporter at ABC has been allowed to counter the Global Warming frenzy with one 15 minutes documentary segment.

[...]

I have read dozens of scientific papers. I have talked with numerous scientists. I have studied. I have thought about it. I know I am correct. There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril. I am incensed by the incredible media glamour, the politically correct silliness and rude dismissal of counter arguments by the high priest of Global Warming.

In time, a decade or two, the outrageous scam will be obvious.

private property right is the solution to all the environmental problems!!!

What environmental problems? Discuss them. And big government regulation costing tax payers millions of dollars is the solution??

 

[Mygeeto]

i think the moral of the story is dont even bother or even think about arguing with Ironslave because he knows his shit.

 

[The Creator]

IS scares me... I think you are just too damn inteligent on the topic to even argue with my friend IS!

 

[Tech]

2 questions...
1)Do you guys that support ron paul really support every one of his positions on every topic? Not trying to debate, just curious...

When I hear him speak, he explains things in a way that makes sense. So I tend to agree with pretty much all his positions. (or at least all the ones I've heard him talk about)

 

[Flex]

2 questions...
1)Do you guys that support ron paul really support every one of his positions on every topic? Not trying to debate, just curious...

2) IS, are you ron paul??

Most positions, not all.

 

[Oloz]

IS turning up the heat

 

[Ironslave]

I think you are just too damn inteligent on the topic to even argue with my friend IS!

Who is your friend? they against RP? If so, bring them on :ihavesandinmyvagina

 

[The Creator]

Who is your friend? they against RP? If so, bring them on :ihavesandinmyvagina

ah now I see that my post made no sense. your my friend IS!

 

[Clint]

I agree with Braaq. We all perceive things differently, nobody is wrong, let them perceive things the way they want to.







change

 

[Ironslave]

change

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[The Creator]

Calling the war on drugs a failure=fail imo. Just curious as to the alternative?

btw...please dont make me look like a dumb ass . Your intelligence scares me and could honestly make me roll into the fetal position in the corner of my room

 

[Ironslave]

Calling the war on drugs a failure=fail imo. Just curious as to the alternative?

If you wanted to, could you make less than 5 phone calls, and go out and buy some weed?

 

[Tech]

Calling the war on drugs a failure=fail imo. Just curious as to the alternative?

The alternative would be to give people their personal freedom back. Let states decide which drugs can be legal.

Alcohol prohibition failed. Drug prohibition is failing.

 

[Braaq]

If you wanted to, could you make less than 5 phone calls, and go out and buy some weed?

I could make just one

 

[Ironslave]

I could make just one

Exactly, the "war" is a complete failure. Tech hit the nail on the head with his post, look at all the crime that came up with prohibition of alcohol. It would be the same thing if drugs were legalized, there would be no drug related crimes ever, and valuble tax dollars could be used elsewhere.

If people are too stupid and harm themselves, its their own fault. It's just like alcohol, if someone wants to drink themselves into alcohol poisoning, they legally are able to have that right.

 

[Chesticles]

change

We fear change

 

[TJ]

Calling the war on drugs a failure=fail imo. Just curious as to the alternative?

btw...please dont make me look like a dumb ass . Your intelligence scares me and could honestly make me roll into the fetal position in the corner of my room

Aside from personal responsibility I think it would be a huge relief to tax payers if the war on drugs was thrown out. Think about all of the non-violent, law abiding citizens, aside from their drug habit, who are in jail. The jails are getting flooded with people like this and it is costing tax payers money and hurting our economy. Plus, think of all the tax payers money that funds the war on drugs.

 

[The Creator]

I guess, to me, ending the war on drugs would be like a parent giving in to their child when he or she just wont stop screaming for some candy. I see it as giving in to crime just because it would be "easier and cheaper". I think a bar has been set that drugs will not be tolerated and I dont think that bar should be moved. Sure it would be easier and cheaper, but from my point of view I see it as a good thing. Sure we will never be able to stop it all and obviously there will always be those who rebel the rules and laws but I see giving into them as a sign of weekness. Just my opinion.

 

[Tech]

I guess, to me, ending the war on drugs would be like a parent giving in to their child when he or she just wont stop screaming for some candy. I see it as giving in to crime just because it would be "easier and cheaper". I think a bar has been set that drugs will not be tolerated and I dont think that bar should be moved. Sure it would be easier and cheaper, but from my point of view I see it as a good thing. Sure we will never be able to stop it all and obviously there will always be those who rebel the rules and laws but I see giving into them as a sign of weekness. Just my opinion.

what about marijuana? shouldn't states get to decide whether marijuana should be legal or not?

Would you be ok with a state regulating marijuana like they do tobacco? (18 years old to buy)