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Dorian Yates: not so different after all

knight_rider

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Im starting this thread is reply to the previous thread about Dorian Yates' training style in which a lot of people were rather critical of Yates training style and claiming it was next to useless or lead to injury quckly.

Firstly: yates isnt the only guy to ever tear a muscle, he is however one of a small number of Multiple Mr Olympia's, plenty of volume guys get pec tears too....Tony Freeman comes to mind! Yates Training causes injury....pure myth....lifting heavy ass weights and not knowing when to back off causes injury!

Secondly: the common crticism of yates' training is he doesnt do enough working sets for the average trainer to yield an adaptive response (hypertrophy). This argument is poorly assembled, because Dorian typical workout would involve 3-6 exercises per major bodypart, in which he would work up to a final heavy to failure and sometimes extended set, that is he would go to failure and employ an intesity technique like rest-pause or forced reps, drop set etc to create a bigger adaptive response. This means that Dorian was doing from 3 to 6 working sets per muscle and often the intesity technique would make the affect larger still.

Now if you compare this kind of training to say our greatest Olympian Mr Coleman who performs say 4 exercises per major bodypart certain similarities become apparent. Ronnie when doing bench press will work up from 2 plates per side, 3 plates per side, 4 plates, 5 plates, and usually reps out on the last two sets, so he is only performing really 1-2 working sets per exercise, which bring his working setys up to a total of about 8 working sets per bodypart.

So if Yates was as much as 6 and ronnie is about 8 workings sets.......whats the difference.....

The mistake people make is they read the pro's program with 4 sets of bench, incline dumbell, cable flyes, decline flyes and immeadiately assume they are all working sets, but only around 8-10 of the supposed 12 sets are of high intensity, the rest are warm ups.

Conclusion: you dont need to many working sets to produce results, whats important and defining in pro training is they progressed in strength over a moderate-low rep range over time.........if you examined all the tops guys and had a look at there basic compoun lifts over a 5-10 rep range, you would find its an impressive amount of weight..........the amount of workings sets between Yates and Coleman is not as different as you think! yet they are supposedly on opposite ends of the spectrum!

Hopefully i've offered some perspective to those who like to lable Yates as some extreme HIT abnormality when if anything his training was pretty standard and sensible and lets face it, most of his career he did 3-4 exercises per bodypart and did 3 working sets anyway, it was only the later years when he was lifting such extrme weights that doing to many working sets was detremental because it didnt allow adequate recovery!
 

Skeptic

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Yates workouts were with far more intensity than colemans... yates would often get his workouts done in about 45 minutes.
 

FOOTBALL FAN

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people cannot really be too criticle, he has acheived alot more than anyone here excluding maybe a few, are ever likely to.
 

knight_rider

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And Dorian do just 1 working set

lol, that was the simple misnomer i was trying to explain!

Dorian did one working set, but he did it for 3-6 different exercises per bodypart!

Coleman basically works up to 1-2 working exercises per bodypart, only colemans last two sets are using a weight that taxes him and he takes to failure, he only does around 3-4 exercises per body part, hence when you compare total working sets, there is not much difference!

in regards to intensity, its a word that thrown around a lot, intensity is an ambiguous term.

the weight the pro's lift over a moderate rep range determines their size (plus gh and test regimes) not so much intensity.....whatever that means
 

Skeptic

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Yates and colemans training styles were very much different man. doesnt matter how many working sets... they were very different
 

knight_rider

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Yates and colemans training styles were very much different man. doesnt matter how many working sets... they were very different

im well aware they were different dude, the point is im trying to de-bunk the common argument that dorian's volume was ridiculously small, so many people refute Dorians style saying he didnt do enough volume, my points was when you compared his volume of working sets (which are the productive sets causing hypertrophy) to so called 'volume' trainers, they are more comparable than you would think!

also i think working sets is entirely the point, because the best training programs have enough working sets on the key exercises to trigger growth but not push to far into overtraining! and i broke down the elements of two pro's supposedly on opposite ends of the volume spectrum and demonstrated at the core of it, the volume of the productive set which caused hypertrophy were similar!

hopefully you read what i said instead of just reading the thread name and making assumptions
 

Skeptic

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i didnt say 'it doesnt matter how many working sets' as in 'you can do 1 and still grow'. I said it in reference to your comparison to both bodybuilders. So i hopr you read MY posts instead of reading certain parts and then making assumptions :tiphat:, dont think of me as an idiot cus you dont read my posts properly. they did not have many working sets cus they both pyramid their sets. This is why they dont need too many working sets.
 

knight_rider

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ok fair enough, i think we just use the terms a little different

basically when i look at training programs i break all the elements down into workings sets per week (or cycle if you split is not 7 day based) and that to me forms the core factor determining the true volume of the workout.........i guess the term style is as tenuous as intensity, it means a lot without meaning anything!

sorry for coming across as rude! just wanted to clarify what my argument or line of thinking was! im talking volume not style! check out that post from a few days ago about Dorian yates' style.........a few people made some comments suggesting his volume was too short etc, i just wanted to point out that its not that low at all, plus his frequency was a touch a higher than most! etc

have a good one! How is Brizzy atm, humid as steam bath
 

Skeptic

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Brizzy weather is a cunt at the moment. i officially hate sweat rolling down the crack of my arse.
 
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