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Fat burning threshold

Zigurd

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Going to the gym in some minutes. I will be doing cardio for the first time evar after some long time. I will be doing 10-15 minutes to start on the thredmill and then after my workout I will be doing 15-20 minutes in the eliptic.

What is the heart rate I should maintain during my cardio to increase fat loss ? Or what is the appropiate positioning of cardio exercises, is my current one fine ?
 

Rageking

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normally its best to do cardio at another time than your weight training.
there are so many different thoughts about cardio i would say just do it.
low intensity burns more fat percentage wise, high intensity burns more calories so in turn burns more fat total.
 

philosopher

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If you have time to do some cardio on off days I would suggest you try some HIIT. If you havent got time to do it on off days than take some protein after your weight training before you start with the cardio. During the training take some gatorate.
 

Rageking

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^forgot to add that.
after your workout is fine but i would suggest to try and get a protein shake in before.

HIIT is great. normally i try and do HIIT in the morning, ive had great results with it.
 

Ironslave

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The fat burning threshold is kinda a myth with some truth to it, if you want to get technical. But overall, I'd hardly fret about watching your heart rate, if you want to do some low intensity cardio because you haven't in a while, that would be a great idea. Just get on an elliptical or something and go at a decent pace.
 

philosopher

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^forgot to add that.
after your workout is fine but i would suggest to try and get a protein shake in before.

HIIT is great. normally i try and do HIIT in the morning, ive had great results with it.

On an empty stomag..? If so I would not recommand doing that especially if you want to keep your hard earned muscle. If your goals is to lose fat no matter what than Cardio on an empty stomag is the way to go
 

Fatality

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There are plenty of treadmill workouts for weightloss that will boost your metabolism and burn more calories - so what's the best workout for weight loss?

Put simply, walking or running on a treadmill for around 20-30 minutes on at least three days a week is a great way to burn fat and increase the effectiveness of your weight loss program.

How come? Well consider this.

The average person burns around 100 calories a mile regardless of whether they walk or run, whether it's quickly or slowly.


If you run faster you'll cover a greater mileage and burn more calories in total than when running more slowly.

However, you burn proportionately more fat when walking or running at a slower pace.

This is because fat requires oxygen to be metabolised. Exercising at lower intensities means that your body can take in and utilise more oxygen, therefore your body can burn more fat.

Up the intensity and your body switches to burning more carbs in its fuel mix.

However, the more aerobically fit you get, the better your body becomes at utilising body fat to fuel exercise at higher intensities.

The answer then if weight loss is your goal, is to start walking or running at a moderate pace. Then steadily increase your speed and the distance covered over a period of months.

By gradually overloading your body in this way, it will adapt to the greater strain and you can progress - training a little harder the next time.

In this way, you'll maximise your fat burning efforts during your treadmill workouts for weightloss and lose weight - fat - more efficiently.

Make sense? Here's an example.


Get on your treadmill and warm up for 5 minutes.

Then start walking or running, whichever you prefer at a speed that keeps your heart rate at around 60-70% of your max heart rate (220 minus your age x 60-70%).

Exercising at this intensity will burn proportionately more fat than walking or running at say 80-90% of your max heart rate.

Aim to maintain this pace for at least 20-30 minutes, longer if you can.

If you up your speed and walk or run more quickly for the 20-30 minutes you'll cover more miles and burn more calories, but will burn proportionately less fat per mile than running more slowly.

Obviously, the fitter you get the better your body gets at utilising oxygen during a cardio workout and the harder you can train whilst keeping your heart rate in the optimum fat burning zone of 60-70% of your max heart rate.
So, if you're looking for treadmill workouts for weightloss, exercise at a moderate pace for at least 20-30 minutes, 3-5 times a week, gradually increase the speed and intensity of your workout week by week and you'll soon see the pounds drop off!
 

Zigurd

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Thank you guys !!!

I wanted to do cardio because I felt just weight lifting is not enough to keep a healthy lifestyle. Besides, I was beggining to feel and look a bit more bloated. Damn abdominal fat.

I went to the gym, did 15 minutes of threadmill, steady pace and low heart rate. Because I was aware of the fact that you burn more fat the more oxygen you use, etc...

After that I did my weight lifting and asked a really really good coach I have (former bodybuilder from Brazil, massive motherfucker) how much cardio should I do afterwards. He told me the minimum was 30 min at a steady pace. So I did.

Is this true ? That you have to do at least 30 minutes or it's not that effective ?

(Thanks guys again, especially for the idea of upgrading the speed and level of the machines gradually to push my body!!!)
 

tim290280

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Fatality you have to stop cutting and pasting junk like that :disgust:

IS hit it on the head. Fat burning zones are pretty much mythical. Target heart rate zones are pointless (they are based on a flawed model), calories burned by exercise is usually very low in comparison to anything else (eating has more caloric expenditure), and eliptical machines are generally terrible for you joints.

The reason to do cardio is to improve your general health. This will in turn improve your ability to train and mainatin good health. I think low intensity cardio done in a gym makes as much sense as taking the escalator instead of the stairs. Go for a walk outside, take the missus shopping at a large mall, etc. I'm also not a big fan of steady state cardio or long duration stuff, HIIT or sprints or whatever are far better.
 

Fatality

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Tim, how am I supposed to know? It looked promising and it was supported with tremendous detail, so I figured it must be correct in some ways. But it turns out it's not, and so I learn from my mistakes...Edit...thanks Tim for the negative rep...that's really going to help me. Just to let you know, you were the first person to neg rep me. Great, you told me it was junk and I understand now, but to really go as far as neg. repping me (which I think is pointless) seems a bit childish. But the information that you give to people is seriously tremendous and I don't care that you neg repped me, you help me out a lot and I appreciate it. No hard feelings. Edit again, Tim, could you point me in a direction in which I could maybe know if an article is fake or true. Are there some good websites, other than Mecca that I can trust so that I can stop giving out shitty info?
 

Zigurd

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Fatality you have to stop cutting and pasting junk like that :disgust:

IS hit it on the head. Fat burning zones are pretty much mythical. Target heart rate zones are pointless (they are based on a flawed model), calories burned by exercise is usually very low in comparison to anything else (eating has more caloric expenditure), and eliptical machines are generally terrible for you joints.

The reason to do cardio is to improve your general health. This will in turn improve your ability to train and mainatin good health. I think low intensity cardio done in a gym makes as much sense as taking the escalator instead of the stairs. Go for a walk outside, take the missus shopping at a large mall, etc. I'm also not a big fan of steady state cardio or long duration stuff, HIIT or sprints or whatever are far better.

Why are the heart rate zones based on a flaw model ? Who decided the model was flawed, I would like some links to actual tests please :3

Also, after the gym, I actually take a 1,2 hour walk home. So I don't really need more walking.

I can actually say I felt AMAZING while on the eliptical machine. My body felt incredible, it was as if I was getting more energy from somewhere. I will be doing cardio every day, simply because my body felt so good after it.
 

tim290280

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Why are the heart rate zones based on a flaw model ? Who decided the model was flawed, I would like some links to actual tests please :3
Do a search on pubmed for the heart rate zone models and then take a look at the assumptions built into it. Then take a look at the simplification that is then used to give us the HR calcs used by the general populous. Then you'll see that the only accurate HR zones would have to be calculated directly from you from a full physical workup (which will change with fitness level, age, etc). It really is psuedo-science at it's best.
Also, after the gym, I actually take a 1,2 hour walk home. So I don't really need more walking.
Good to hear! So don't do low intensity steady state cardio in the gym, you've already got that covered.
I can actually say I felt AMAZING while on the eliptical machine. My body felt incredible, it was as if I was getting more energy from somewhere. I will be doing cardio every day, simply because my body felt so good after it.
Please try something other than an eliptical, like a rower or bike. They actually have a transition phase from up to down that causes a mild hyperextension (or jolt) at the knee that you don't notice (initially). Repetitive motion over long periods causes all sorts of issues that you don't need on top of training with weights. I prefer running (not jogging) to that.
 

Ironslave

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Thank you guys !!!

I wanted to do cardio because I felt just weight lifting is not enough to keep a healthy lifestyle. Besides, I was beggining to feel and look a bit more bloated. Damn abdominal fat.

Excellent to hear these thoughts.

I went to the gym, did 15 minutes of threadmill, steady pace and low heart rate. Because I was aware of the fact that you burn more fat the more oxygen you use, etc...

You burn a larger % of substrate from fat, and herein lies where the fat burning zone came about. Reps for the first person who can tell me what activity burns the largest percentage of calories from fat.....


Is this true ? That you have to do at least 30 minutes or it's not that effective ?

Eh, no, not quite true. But certainly, the longer you do cardio, the more you shift from glycolytic (carbohydrate) metabolism to lipolytic (fat) metabolism.

If anybody truly wants to look into this, I could discuss the differences between high and low intensity cardio and the fat loss thing. But to summarize

Low intensity
- Burns the most % of calories from fats
- good for competition dieting bodybuilders to ensure muscle mass preservation (especially towards the end of the contest prep)

High intensity cardio

-Technically, at a certain intensity, fat burning CAN be blunted due to inhibition of fatty acids into the mitochondria (where they are oxidized for energy)
- But, the benefits of high intensity cardio include
- larger total number of calories burned
- less time consuming
- longer elevated rate after exercise (EPOC)
- and finally, a ton of other cellular events which favor fat burning.
 

Zigurd

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Please try something other than an eliptical, like a rower or bike. They actually have a transition phase from up to down that causes a mild hyperextension (or jolt) at the knee that you don't notice (initially). Repetitive motion over long periods causes all sorts of issues that you don't need on top of training with weights. I prefer running (not jogging) to that.

Ok thanks man !!

There are plenty of different cardio machines at my gym, I'll be sure to change my cardio workout frequently and include as less elliptical as I can.

I have a rather stupid question, how can I know or feel when a workout is burning fat. I know it's a impossible to answer question, but perhaps with experience you actually can tell when your body does something. I can swear I was burning fat today, because it felt orgasmic to do the cardio. Hahahhaha stupid question of the day !

Also, is it true that only aerobic training burns carbs and fat ? While anaerobic training only burns carbs ?
 

Zigurd

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If anybody truly wants to look into this, I could discuss the differences between high and low intensity cardio and the fat loss thing. But to summarize

Yes PLEASE. I will love you if you can in detail explain the difference.
 

Ironslave

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Please try something other than an eliptical, like a rower or bike. They actually have a transition phase from up to down that causes a mild hyperextension (or jolt) at the knee that you don't notice (initially). Repetitive motion over long periods causes all sorts of issues that you don't need on top of training with weights. I prefer running (not jogging) to that.

I gotta disagree with this, it's so low impact, there's no way at all that the eliptical machine is hard on your knees at all. I have one at home, and I just got on it and looked at my knees, the only way they hyperextended was if I forcefully straightened my leg and tried to hyperextened them as my leg was at the bottom of it.
 

tim290280

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Tim, how am I supposed to know? It looked promising and it was supported with tremendous detail, so I figured it must be correct in some ways. But it turns out it's not, and so I learn from my mistakes...Edit...thanks Tim for the negative rep...that's really going to help me. Just to let you know, you were the first person to neg rep me. Great, you told me it was junk and I understand now, but to really go as far as neg. repping me (which I think is pointless) seems a bit childish. But the information that you give to people is seriously tremendous and I don't care that you neg repped me, you help me out a lot and I appreciate it. No hard feelings. Edit again, Tim, could you point me in a direction in which I could maybe know if an article is fake or true. Are there some good websites, other than Mecca that I can trust so that I can stop giving out shitty info?
I usually state why I rep people in the rep comments. Just let me convey here that Ironslave had posted before you had and is clearly knowledgeable on the subject. You then cut and paste an article that essentially says the opposite when you should have been aware that the information contained in the post must be of little value given the previous post. Your post should have been questioning why he had made his statements as you have read other articles that state otherwise. I negged this because it was thoughtless and corrupting posting that you have done a lot in the past that I hope you will improve upon as you do contribute a lot here.:tiphat:

Also I've posted several times on how to spot crap articles. Basically you have to be critical and analytical of the information presented and put it in context.
 

tim290280

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I gotta disagree with this, it's so low impact, there's no way at all that the eliptical machine is hard on your knees at all. I have one at home, and I just got on it and looked at my knees, the only way they hyperextended was if I forcefully straightened my leg and tried to hyperextened them as my leg was at the bottom of it.
Sounds like most peoples stride pattern on those things :dunnodude:

THis is a depends on the build design thing and the individual biomechanics and movement patterns thing as well. I can state that physios and rehab people will steer you well clear of them (they prefer you to jog of all things) when you have knee problems. They are also wary of them for healthy individuals. When I was initially told this I was skeptical and actually tried finding biomechanics literature on it and didn't find anything, so this is coming from the unpublished biomechanics observations.

Also I think it is fair to say that repetitive low impact motions are the cause of a lot of long term issues people have. High impact and low impact are of course all relative to the activity (forces of running are low in comparison to weightlifting and jogging but high in comparison to walking). You still see injuries as a result of low impact stressors. From my own experience I've had as many injuries from low impact as high impact stressors.
 

Ironslave

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THis is a depends on the build design thing and the individual biomechanics and movement patterns thing as well. I can state that physios and rehab people will steer you well clear of them (they prefer you to jog of all things) when you have knee problems. They are also wary of them for healthy individuals. When I was initially told this I was skeptical and actually tried finding biomechanics literature on it and didn't find anything, so this is coming from the unpublished biomechanics observations.

I've never heard of this, and even hearing about it, it doesn't seem to make sense to me. Why do so many athletes recovering from knee surgery ride a bike for example?

Also I think it is fair to say that repetitive low impact motions are the cause of a lot of long term issues people have. High impact and low impact are of course all relative to the activity (forces of running are low in comparison to weightlifting and jogging but high in comparison to walking). You still see injuries as a result of low impact stressors. From my own experience I've had as many injuries from low impact as high impact stressors.

I'd completely agree that constant low load repetitive motion stress is a source of injury over time, thats why carpenters/mechanics get carpel tunnel, and so on. But I wouldn't qualify the elliptical as one of these stressors.
 

tim290280

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I've never heard of this, and even hearing about it, it doesn't seem to make sense to me. Why do so many athletes recovering from knee surgery ride a bike for example?
Bike isn't the same motion. It has a proper circular motion that doesn't have a break in force. In my rehab I tried out both and the bike is so nice to use as opposed to the eliptical.

THe bike is a centre axle that has force applied at 180 degree offsets, so force is pulling one leg up while the other leg pushes. THis gives a nice smooth motion. THe eliptical has a double axle so the offset isn't making the same force accomodations. Essentially you land (as you would running) and then have your leg dragged forward (knee taken into shear) before recovery. THis will vary with stride pattern and design of machine of course, but they are completely different from the bike.

Also worth noting the knee issues associated with incorrect saddle height in cyclists. Plenty of studies on the correct knee angle at the bottom position.
 
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